C206 Epiphany 2

[00:00:05] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. Hello everyone, I'm Fran Barber. [00:00:18] Speaker B: And I'm Robyn Whittaker. [00:00:19] Speaker A: And this week is the second week in Epiphany. And Robyn and I are going to be focusing on Isaiah 62:1 5, 1 Corinthians 12, 1, 11, 11 and John 2, verses 1 to 11 beginning with the gospel. Yes, the first of the seven signs in John. [00:00:41] Speaker B: Exactly. So to state some really, really obvious things up front, this wedding at Cana scene is, is a sign. It's the first sort of. So John's Gospel uses language of signs, Samaya, not miracles. But it functions in the way that all the Gospels have a sort of a first miracle, if you like. And so the immediate question for me, what is this miracle doing in terms of the way John is introducing Jesus? And it's unique to John. So we only get this wedding in Cana story in John's Gospel. [00:01:13] Speaker A: I'm interested, sorry, just for some context comment that the immediate previous chapter is Philip and Nathanael being called. And the question, can anything good come from Nazareth about Jesus? And then we get this sign, slash miracle. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Exactly. And also just before this, we've had. Is it John the baptizer saying something greater than me will come? Right. So we've got, we've got this expectation of greatness and then we come to Cana of Galilee. And this passage is full of kind of echoes of Old Testament eschatological expectations. So starting with on the third day. [00:01:56] Speaker A: I have that highlighted as well. [00:01:58] Speaker B: Yes. So third day, of course, day of resurrection. But other things happen in the Bible on the third day day. So I don't think it's just a passing sort of. [00:02:07] Speaker A: No, no, I think it's marker. It's not chronological sequence. It's the theological, I would say. I mean, it's the third day that in the sacrifice of Isaac, so to speak, that, that the third day is mentioned just in time. [00:02:20] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:21] Speaker A: And then in Hosea 6, the call of repentance to Israel, the third day is mentioned. Just two into two. Two examples there. [00:02:31] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. And then, and then we get a wedding imagery. So we're in the setting of a wedding, which again has a big long biblical. And we're going to get to it in Isaiah 2 Weddings and language of, you know, bridegrooms and brides. And all of this is associated with sort of restoration celebration, God's presence with the people. And so it's one way the Bible does talk about a hopeful future. So eschatology, end times, the heavenly banquet. Yes. [00:03:05] Speaker A: And one of the fun facts I found when I was reading about this passage was that the wine appears 231 times in the Bible and it is referred to explicitly around, you know, the evils of too much wine. But mostly it's about the abundance and sort of Amos speaks of a day when the mountains shall drip with sweet wine and so on. So it is very much a symbol of abundance and joy awaiting Israel and all of creation biblically. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Now I was thinking about this cause, you know, a lot's been written about this passage and including from people a bit concerned about the abundance of wine. And I think in a culture like ours, Fran, where, you know, this is Australian culture, there is an abundance of alcohol. Alcohol can be a real problem and for those of us who can afford it, there's no shortage of wine. But we need to remember in the ancient world, while wine was present in a lot of meals because often some sort of fermented drink like a beer or wine type substance was safer than the drinking water. To have this quantity of high quality wine is again associated with feasting and is something that, you know, average people living hand to mouth, fairly much people did then. Yeah, exactly. Unless you were one of the small elites. This is a sign of absolute mind boggling abundance. [00:04:32] Speaker A: I was interested. You know, we see Jesus healing people in, in various forms of sort of desperation and bringing people back into the fold in contexts that are really around poverty. Yeah, and this is, I mean middle class, but not that that existed then. But yeah, this is an interesting one because of, as you say, it's, it's slightly different context. I didn't bother looking up what 20 or 30 gallons was. I got the message. It's a vast amount. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Oh, we're talking hundreds of litres in met systems. And it's worth noting, you know, the role of the steward and the tasting is to say it's not just a vast quantity of wine, it's a high quality of wine. So it's, it's full abundance in all its kinds, which of course, so the way some of these sort of early miracle sign stories work in the gospels is they give us hints of a author's theology. And one of, you know, the themes we see in John is of this kind of sense of abundance. So this, you know, I, I came that you might have life and have it abundantly. And John 10 is a saying of Jesus. We again only get in this Gospel in the way that, you know, Mark's gospel starts with an exorcism as the first miracle. And that's all about demonic forces and overturning of evil, you know. So the big question for me is what. What does this tell us about the Jesus being revealed in John? And it is a Jesus, I think, of life, of abundance. And we're going to have echoes of glory in the cross already here. [00:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good contrast with the beginning of Mark that I hadn't thought about. And we are, as you say, that this is a moment of revelation and that language is used right at the end of this passage. One thing I would note about this story, unique to John, as you say, is also that while it is glory and revelation, it's only happening for some people here. So it appears from the story that not even the main people or the guests know that Jesus did this. So there's something quite partial about the revelation. And. [00:06:44] Speaker B: It'S a small group that kind of. [00:06:46] Speaker A: It's small, it's not complete, it's emerging, it's provisional, and it's very much the beginning of the gospel. So much more will be revealed, but only in these portional ways as well. And so for me, that's something significant theologically about what it is to encounter God in life still. You know, the call of this story to me is for us to be open to the momentary and fleeting and partial encounters with God's glory that we see around us. And how do we train ourselves or how do we. How do we form ourselves, our. One, another to see those. [00:07:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I really like that. And where my brain just went in what you were saying there is that perhaps if we think, if we imagine with the people in this. This scene, like there are wedding guests and perhaps even including the bride and groom who get to enjoy the fruits of the miracle without knowing its source or anything about it. And there is something in Christian life, Right. Where we experience God's grace and sometimes don't even give it that language. Right. So the goodness we experience, we don't always attribute to the source or. Or. [00:08:07] Speaker A: Or to it being affected. Obviously, ultimately it's affected by God. Yeah, but through others. [00:08:12] Speaker B: Yes, exactly. [00:08:13] Speaker A: The movement of others. Yeah. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Who might be bearing that for us, but we don't always recognize or we don't recognize it at the time or. Yeah, there's a lot to play with here. And one of the other things I thought about for a preaching theme, I think, you know, and again, being clear, John does not use language of Miracle. But these signs do function a bit like that in John's Gospel. I think in the contemporary church, we often think of miracles as things that are these very tangible, you know, like a, A healing from an illness or a, you know, which is often what a lot of miracles in the Bible look like. But if we think of this in that broad category, it is about God being revealed in, in some ways something a bit more ordinary. Like it's not an overturning of a health crisis or some, you know, big, I don't. Natural event. It is in the abundance of. Of sharing this high quality wine on food or whatever that we experience God's grace. And I thought, you know, to get people to think about that experience of God's grace as actually miraculous. [00:09:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Could be an interesting playlist. [00:09:18] Speaker A: I mean, modern ear and mind can get caught up with the label miracle, which also. Which is why I think sign here is more helpful what John calls them. I mean, the point is not the miracle in that sense. It's the glory that is affected by it or that shines behind it or actually shines onto Christ and tells us something about who this God is that is the focus. Not worrying about whether or not this did or didn't happen. As I've said in other episodes, that is quite a boring question, in my opinion. And if I just. On a light note too, I Googled Rowan Atkinson Wedding at Cana skit. Do yourself a favor and do that to stand up. Others will know it. It's hilarious. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Okay, maybe we should put that on our Facebook page just to add a light note of the gospel. [00:10:08] Speaker A: How the hell did he do. Do that? Do you do children's parties? [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:10:13] Speaker A: The Lord said no. [00:10:14] Speaker B: No. [00:10:15] Speaker A: Anyway, excellent. [00:10:16] Speaker B: There's two other things that occurred to me. You know, this is rich Johannine writing with multiple layers and things. So there's lots of themes one could pull out. One is, I was struck this year reading this again at the role of Jesus mother. [00:10:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:31] Speaker B: Who's not actually called Mary explicitly, but will be in other places in John. But. So John doesn't have birth stories. We don't get Mary introduced as a kind of mother in other ways associated with the infant, but very clearly mother here. And she is the one who pushes him. You know, Jesus says, you know my hours. Not yet, woman. You know, basically like go. [00:10:54] Speaker A: Well, it's a bit harsh in the English ear. That does sound. [00:10:58] Speaker B: No, I think, I think it's not polite. It's not mum, please. You know, it's woman, you know, and yet she persists. She basically ignores him. So it's maybe a bit sort of, I don't know, mystical and metaphorical. But I thought it's interesting to think of this in John's Gospel as Mary kind of almost pushing Jesus out in a birthing kind of way into ministry. And the way that in Matthew and Luke we get actual birth stories, but here we get Jesus mother still being the one who somehow pushes him out into the world and into his ministry here, which is just something interesting to play with. [00:11:37] Speaker A: And if we connect that to the fact that she doesn't reappear until his hour does come, I know in the whole Gospel we don't hear from her again, that is also a shining of his glory in a sense, or her highlighting or pushing forward or being present at those key identifier moments. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's great because that connects to the other thing I think we can't skip here is this language of my hour has not yet come. So we've got language of my hour and glory at the end and the third day and the third day. And in John's Gospel, Jesus big hour. There's lots of references to my hour or my time. But Jesus big hour is the cross, which in John's Gospel is the point of glory and true revelation. So we're getting all of those hints here perhaps as you say, also linked to when his mother appears and she'll appear again at that hour of glory at. At the foot of the cross. So in the early church, if you go back and read those sources, the absolutely across the board, predominant way this was interpreted was as very much an eschatological vision. This was all about Jesus, glory and kingdom being revealed in this kind of heavenly banquet, wedding kind of thing. I think we can read it at more layers than that. But that was very much because of this language here. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's a. It's a rich source for many, many sermons as it has been, obviously. [00:12:59] Speaker B: Yep. Let's turn now to Isaiah 62. If you'd like to know more about by the well or any of our Hosts, please visit bythewell.com au. [00:13:20] Speaker A: So is this the core to sort of third Isaiah? [00:13:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:13:24] Speaker A: Bridge between it sort of. I think, I think it is. Anyway, it's written slightly sooner. No, later. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Later, yes, 61. [00:13:33] Speaker A: That we read last week. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So some scholars talk about two or three sections of Isaiah and this, this is later. [00:13:41] Speaker A: So they've returned from exile. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. I mean, again, sometimes our dating of these texts is kind of best guess. But I think what's imagined here, in the words of the prophet, is a return and a restoration. So Babylon, the Babylonian empire, demolished Jerusalem, including the temple in Jerusalem. There's been generations in exile, and now we've got this, you know, so I don't know, like, when the text was actually written, as opposed, you know, in relation to people returning. But it's anticipating or it's reflecting on that, that restoration. [00:14:23] Speaker A: It's definitely deep joy. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Yes. So, I mean, you can see in some ways why the lectionaries paired it with John, because we get some wedding imagery here, again, associated with rejoicing with God being present. But we start with language that could be problematic, I think we have to say, or with. Given what's going on in the world. [00:14:46] Speaker A: Yes. Dorothy and I, and perhaps you and Dorothy also did make some remarks about this at, in our Advent episodes, that the language of Zion and the vindication of Jerusalem and so on has specific echoes right now. Yeah. We need to be attuned to as preachers, and that means being clear about the context that this is coming from. And this is joy from the mouth of those who are oppressed. [00:15:16] Speaker B: Yes, yes. The power dynamics are really important. I think it's also helpful. I mean, if you are going to preach on this text. And I know there are some people who are very uncomfortable even reading such texts aloud, but please don't change the language. We need to deal with what's here. So for Zion's sake. So Zion in the Bible appears. I looked it up 152 times in the Old Testament, predominantly in Psalms, Isaiah and Jeremiah. And the word is a Hebrew word which literally means a signpost. So Zion is the signpost of God's people or God's place, or, you know, for the world. But particularly in Isaiah, it gets used almost synonymously with Jerusalem. So there is a place associated with Zion, but it also functions as this idea that's not just about place, but in Isaiah, it often overlaps very strongly with Jerusalem. And we see this here in terms of for Zion's sake, for Jerusalem's, in the way that Hebrew poetry kind of repeats things using different language. But like you said, Fran, I think we've got to be really conscious. This is about a people coming back after significant suffering and absolute destruction from a foreign power. And this sense that for God's people who've experienced that suffering, the desire of God is to vindicate, vindicate and restore. You know, I want to be really careful what I say here. I think we need to be Very careful about just making obvious links into the contemporary context. [00:16:57] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And in terms of our season of epiphany, there is sort of language here too, around glory and burning torch and dawn. There's sort of, you know, language around brightness and light and glory. Yep. You shall be called by a new name. So. Yeah, so that's a very well known biblical motif where, you know, Abraham becomes Abraham and Jacob becomes Israel, becomes Israel and later on Saul becomes Paul. So there's this whole new identity that is born out of. Into this new creation. And I looked up diadem because that wasn't in my common parlance. And according to. It's a crown. [00:17:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Which is just a fancy word for saying crown. They said the verse before a regal diadem. [00:17:48] Speaker B: Yep. I know that word because it's everywhere in the book of Revelation. Lots of crowns or diadems. [00:17:52] Speaker A: Yep. Okay. And just capitalized names here. [00:17:57] Speaker B: You. [00:17:58] Speaker A: You will no longer. So Jerusalem will no longer be termed forsaken. Your land shall no longer be termed desolate. Capital D. You shall be called. My delight is in her with his heftziva. I look Epsibar. So there's extremely evocative language in the Hebrew that we have very stark translations for. In English. [00:18:23] Speaker B: Yep. Yes. So we've got. And of course, I mean, if you wanted to play with this theme, there's lots of places you could go in terms of modern analogies. I mean, in the Christian tradition, people were given a baptismal name to mark the kind of identity that you have in Christ. That might be different. A lot of people, when they make commitments like nuns and monks, take on a name. And I mean, even if. If, you know, we know for say, transgendered people who've perhaps gone through transition, a new name or taking on a new name and having people use your new name, it's incredibly powerful. So, you know, again, I think you could play with this in the modern context, maybe even bring it into prayers of. Of what it would like, look like for us to think about modern day Jerusalem as a place of. Of delight, of peace, of rejoicing, as opposed to conflict and discord and violence. You know, we might use different words, but here they're picking up on the sense of absolute forsakenness and desolation that followed the Babylonian army. [00:19:34] Speaker A: The imagery of marriage as it's depicted in 5 and 6 might be slight or in verse 5, well, might be heard a bit much in the modern ear, but there is a profound intimacy in that imagery between God and God's people. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's used a lot. I mean, famously by the prophet Hosea, where, you know. So, yeah, it's not unproblematic. I do find here there's this, if we're very literal in our translation, this is about young men taking young virgin women and bedding them and rejoicing. So, I mean, it's tapping into things that are to do with new life. Right. That. That marriage produces offspring. And, you know. But it does have some problematic resonances. [00:20:21] Speaker A: I think when I was thinking around the joy that was coming from here, I was. It seems to me to be a kind of joy where someone might have had a terrible diagnosis, you know, and they've gone through lots of treatment and they find out, you know, months, months later or that long journey that there's none evident anymore. [00:20:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:42] Speaker A: So it's a joy that has emerged from a sense of despair and hopelessness and fear that has been transformed and so that you are more appreciable. There's something brighter about life that shines now than did before the whole thing happened. [00:21:01] Speaker B: Yes. No, I think that's right. And. [00:21:06] Speaker A: Sorry, it's not also the joy, the new Jerusalem. It's not just the joy of a new city, but of. Of community with God. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Or communing with God and one another. I think. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think to even this, to go back to the beginning, this language of vindication, which can sound. So, you know, it's where we get our English word vindictive, which can sound problematic. But vindication, I think in the Bible is this sense of overturning when a wrong has been done. So, you know, in Luke's Gospel, we'll get, you know, the resurrection functions as a kind of vindication for the unjust death of Jesus. So it is about God righting a wrong. And in that sense of God being on the side of the suffering and oppressed and promising, you know, this rejoicing and hope and new life that comes out of that. So. [00:22:00] Speaker A: Yeah, And. And that experience is a revelation of God or a revealing of God. [00:22:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:06] Speaker A: For the people. [00:22:06] Speaker B: So there's something, you know, different language, very different contexts. But I think there is some overlap in Isaiah and John in terms of. If we think of this as the season of epiphany of God being revealed in. In these sort of moments of life or in these images from life of feasting and marriage and rejoicing and celebration. This something about the nature of God which does challenge our sort of serious stewardness that we can sometimes have in church. And we could think about how we as communities embody some of that abundance and generosity for others. So Corinthians. [00:22:46] Speaker A: So Corinthians 1, Corinthians 12, verses 1 to 11. So this particular section follows the to do about the Lord's Supper and the Corinthians having a bit too much of an individualistic idea of how that works. And now we're talking about the Spirit. We're moving into that section about the parts of the body and having many members and all those members being as important as each other. That's comes after this. But now Paul is dealing with spiritual gifts. So we've got to remember that Paul writing to the. To the Corinthians was brought about by conflicts occurring in their community. People running perhaps a bit too fast with the idea that the resurrection has occurred and they'd been. Everyone's been resurrected and so we can just carry on, you know. And Paul is wanting to. There's. Well, there's a couple of things I would point out here. The language around idols and speaking. Yep. And also. So you've been led astray to idols that could not speak. And I want you to understand that no one's speaking by the Spirit and so on. And then he has gifts of the Spirit, gifts of tongues. Speaking in tongues down here. So further into the passage. So there's been a conflict where the Corinthians. Some Corinthians have elevated the capacity to speak in tongues. It seems quite high in the spiritual gifts. And Paul is making several points here that that is actually probably not the main yet way in which God is revealing God's self to the people and that he's only by the Spirit of God that. That we can say Jesus is Lord. That spirit will not allow us to say anything else. Like as in Jesus be cursed. [00:24:53] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:54] Speaker A: And that Jesus is Lord is a whole provocative sermon in one sentence, really. It's the sort of the center of the kerygma of the Gospel for all time. And then we've got the language that. That can be loaded with in the Western ear. What does it mean about lordship? What a strange term. How male. And so on dealing with all of that. But also it's profoundly political import or ramifications. If Jesus is Lord, then. Well, Donald Trump isn't. And neither's Anthony Albanese and all the other. [00:25:32] Speaker B: Yeah, all the other world leaders. Yep, I think that's. I think that's right. And yeah, we've very much got to hear. I mean, unity and division are big themes throughout the Corinthian letters and this idea that certain gifts were more highly valued. And of course, I think that's true in our communities in terms of. So the challenge here might be thinking about the ways we do value certain gifts over others and. And yet the variety. I mean, the other, the bigger theme this taps into, which I think we see everywhere in the Bible, but more subtly is this language of variety right there, that there are. Or another way to translate the Greek word that in the NRSP has this varieties of gifts, is diversity, sometimes an overused word. But the point is diversity is built into the very activity of the spirit. Right. So in for churches that. Where we've tried to make everybody the same, or if you don't behave in this kind of way, or you don't present in these kinds of ways, you're not a real Christian. We have here yet another part of the Bible that's talking about diversity of spirits, of services, diversity of activities, diversity of gifts is actually reflective of. [00:26:53] Speaker A: Of God's very self and finds unity, or we find our unity in all that diversity in our common baptism. [00:27:00] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:01] Speaker A: So I think sometimes in our conversation about diversity, it becomes sort of the goal. [00:27:04] Speaker B: A goal in itself. [00:27:05] Speaker A: Yes, in and of itself. When what Paul wants to say here, and the Gospel more generally, is that the Gospel unites us in all our differences. And the other thing I'd emphasize with this passage, and I was alluded to having a look at chapter 11, verse 19, where Paul quite flatly states that divisions are necessary really among you for it to be clear where the truth is. And I think that's a really interesting verse to have in your mind, probably reading any of Paul's Corinthians. But it just got me thinking about a sermon around conflict. Why, you know, and difference and how does your or our community more generally in the church and beyond, but deal with that? Because sometimes we're. Oh, well, if I disagree with you, it means I don't like you, Robyn. And then. [00:28:03] Speaker B: Yes, it's. [00:28:04] Speaker A: Yeah, that's not what. That's actually. That's not what we're supposed to be doing. And Paul is very real that being in community means conflict and difference. [00:28:13] Speaker B: Yep. [00:28:14] Speaker A: It's normal. Yeah. And. But what is the gift is knowing that we are brought together into a unity profoundly by something so other than us and with such creative energy. Yeah. That's what holds us. [00:28:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. For me, I mean, on a similar lines, one of the key verses in this passage is verse seven. To each is given the manifestation or the. The language. There is kind of the. It's It's Fenero language, which is epiphanic language. Right. We have that word in epiphany. So almost the revelation of the Spirit or the embodiment of the Spirit, but for the common good. Right. So this is another checkpoint that, that, that does put some boundaries on diversity for diversity's sake or every opinion being valid, or, you know, it. The measure is always, it's the Spirit for the common good. So if something, and in other places, Paul will talk about what builds up and what tears down, if it's not for the good of the whole community, this is not a gift of the Spirit. Right. If it's about the elevation of one individual over others, or it's actually causing division in harmful ways, this is not a gift of the Spirit. I mean, that just struck me again, this time also, it's a phrase we use in public theology, the sense of the way our gifts of the church can speak for the common good, participate, which takes us beyond the boundaries of the church. So I heard it a bit differently this year because I've. I've preached on this and I usually would talk about gifts for the Christian community, but it made me wonder, and I think that's probably what Paul has in mind, but how we might also think about our gifts of the Spirit for the good of the wider community. Like what. What does it urge us outwards to do as well? [00:30:04] Speaker A: Yeah. One linguistic point I'd make briefly, and you can correct me if I've misremembered this, but to the one is given. So the verb here around God giving is the verb that is used of the prodigal son in Luke. So it's like an inheritance, a familial inheritance that God provides all of us. [00:30:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:26] Speaker A: In us, Receiving us. [00:30:27] Speaker B: Yes. [00:30:27] Speaker A: These gifts to each is given. [00:30:29] Speaker B: Yeah, it's language. It's typical language of giving. Yeah. [00:30:33] Speaker A: Inheritance. The other thing I want to highlight is even the language of gifts. And we've just come out of Christmas where in the Western context, it's just an excess, often of gifts. And this is, as you say, this is gifts of a totally different order in the sense that it is about the common good and not about actually acquisition for acquisition's sake. Yes. I just think that's a theme that could be. [00:30:58] Speaker B: I think so, yeah. So again, if we think of this as a text that we're being given, particularly in this period of epiphany, what does it reveal about God? You know, I think here we're getting some different themes to perhaps the other two readings we've talked about today, but this sense of God that is for the good of all. Where diversity is inherent to the being of God, where there is no hierarchy of gifts, all are essential, you know. So again, something, you know, to ask ourselves what is being revealed here in about about the very nature of God and the nature of the Spirit in. [00:31:33] Speaker A: And also that it's not, under our own efforts, necessary. So the Spirit is choosing this. So we are grateful for the gifts that we show. It's not our own efforts that are emphasized. [00:31:42] Speaker B: It's the gift of God. Yes, by the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.