C210 Epiphany 6

[00:00:04] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. Hello everyone, I'm Fran Barber. [00:00:17] Speaker B: And I'm Sally Douglas. [00:00:19] Speaker A: And Sally and I are in conversation today about the readings for Epiphany 6, and in particular Jeremiah 17, verses 5 to 10, Psalm number 1, all of Psalm number 1, 1 Corinthians 15, 12, 20 and Luke 6, 1726. [00:00:40] Speaker B: So we thought we'd dive in and have a little exploration of each of these readings. So that's a lot. Yeah, we're aware of that. So let's. Shall we start with Jeremiah and have a look? [00:00:49] Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. All these readings are quite confronting today. Stark choices between good and evil, between responding to God's call and refusing it. [00:01:03] Speaker B: That's right. And I think in Jeremiah that's particularly clear and it has some extraordinary wisdom for us in our own climate as a global village right now. These are some words that I think we can hear. And Jeremiah's been in the readings for a couple of weeks, but just to reorient ourselves again. So we don't know much about this prophet, but the prophet is presented, at least in the text as having a really hard time. Like it's not full of joy when you're called by God to say things sometimes, sometimes you're saying hard things that no one wants to hear. And that's the kind of position that Jeremiah's in. And it's a real struggle for Jeremiah in the text and today no less, because there's conflicts around politically and he's seeking to. So there's all kinds of turmoil in the broader context surrounding the people of God. And Jeremiah's very frustrated that people are not being faithful to God. And they're not thrilled about hearing this from Jeremiah. [00:01:59] Speaker A: No, not surprisingly. So Jeremiah is drawing them back to the covenant that he's prophesying they have broken. And he does employ the imagery at one point of adultery to symbolize the idolatry that he sees in them. And the worship of BAAL and other gods and the sort of social, ethical suffering and fallout that's come from that, with the suffering of orphans and widows and so on. So in the book of Jeremiah itself, there is a, there is a window of hope in chapters 30 to 33, where, you know, he does speak in much more hopeful, life giving terms that this will not be forever and that God, you know, will triumph for them. But as you say, where we are here is very confronting and presenting very stark choices to the people. [00:02:59] Speaker B: That's right. And so the particular passage we have, it skips over some verses which are quite lovely. I don't know if you want to speak to them for second. [00:03:06] Speaker A: Oh, you mean the beginning of the chapter. So everyone. I made mistake and thought we were beginning in verse one. And verses one to five are very evocative with beautiful imagery. The sin of Judah is written with an iron pen with a diamond point. It is engraved on the tablet of their hearts and the horns of their altars. And it goes on. He talks about how by your very own act you are lose the heritage I gave you. You know, it's really, really angry. [00:03:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So it's evocative and it's passionate, isn't it? [00:03:35] Speaker A: And clearly in great contrast to the law of the Lord that is written on the Israel. You know, Israel is asked to write the law of the Lord on their hearts. And instead what we have here is an incredibly pointy, sharp tool writing the opposite. So very evocative it is. [00:03:53] Speaker B: And then the passage where the lectionary picks up at verse five, it's has such a strong resonance with wisdom literature. It sounds like something from the Psalms and indeed from Psalm 1, which we'll hear from soon. It has the imagery of two choices, which is part of that kind of wisdom literature approach. It's not just like, do what you feel like everything's fine. There are actually clear commands to be faithful. And if you're not that. That you. Well, in this context, this imagery, you'll be parched, you'll be in the desert and without resources, it'll be like a shrub in the desert and shall not see when relief comes. And so this is the sense of those who are relying on humans now. I think that's an extraordinary challenge for us, that we can think that if. If this person just stepped up, whether it's in the church, we're thinking that if this committee just did this, or whether we're thinking of political situations, if this leader would just step down or so on, rather than this call to actually trust at a heart level, at a gut level, that God is moving, that there are powers beyond human powers. Now, that's quite a challenge. I think sometimes for us we might sing songs about it. But do we actually. [00:05:08] Speaker A: Do we really believe it? Yeah, I mean, that is. We use the word challenge here. I feel like we need another word because it's so. I mean, it's almost not insurmountable. Cause that would be hopeless and not faithful. But even the notion that there are only Two choices is so offensive to the Western mind that prizes choice in all things and believes that we can work out the righteousness of all choices and be sure of them. And is so. It's so ingrained in our hearts as much in Christians as everybody else. [00:05:43] Speaker B: You know, we're swimming in that culture. [00:05:44] Speaker A: We'Re swimming in it. And this is this still small, sometimes cross voice in this scripture saying no. And the evidence around us would suggest that that's true. Left to our own devices, things can get qu. Quite crippling. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. And so what is gorgeous in this imagery about the plant is that when it talks about when the tree should be planted in verse eight by water, it's actually more transplanted. So it has this sense of there is a possibility, even if you're in the desert, trusting in humans, whether it's your own strength or someone else's strength to fix everything, there is the possibility of being transplanted to the river and to actually finding a place where you'll be nourished. And so it's kind of embedded within it is this invitation into that trust. And I think that trust can be sometimes like, I don't trust God, help my. My untrust in my unbelief, that sense of taking serious. So I think a follow through question on a practical level, and it might be a reflection in worship is so in our attention. Where is our attention drawn? Are we having all of our attention drawn into doom scrolling, for example, or is our attention actually on spending time carved out with God, not just saying I'll pray when I get to it, or I pray when I finish all my work or whatever. But are we actually spending time being with God in prayer? And that could be in a variety of ways, spoken prayer, quiet prayer, walking at home or whatever, so that we can do that work of trust so that we can be replenished and nourished. Or are we actually just spending our whole time doom scrolling and looking to mortals? [00:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And another way of putting that question might be for a preacher to focus on the imagery of the heart that Jeremiah uses so frequently in his writings. And the heart is like the seat of commitments. I mean, this passage actually talks about the testing of the mind and the heart, which is something else you could preach a sermon on or 10 sermons on actually. But yeah, just that the heart. And I think elsewhere in Jeremiah he says something in chapter four, circumcise yourselves to the Lord, remove the foreskin of your heart. Sorry, very. I mean it's in the Bible, but really like the Focus is what matters is what's inside, what is on your heart. [00:08:06] Speaker B: And that can be brutal to face within yourself. And that's the invitation of an ongoing prayer practice, because you face all kinds of, you know, not pleasant things. But then that is the opportunity for healing when we can actually become honest with God and. And say, this is the actual mess going on here. I allow you to come in with some healing and. [00:08:27] Speaker A: Yeah. And to play with this imagery of tree, to sit under that tree. I mean, I know this is about us being, you know, like a tree, but actually the living God is the tree under which we live. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:38] Speaker A: From whom we live. [00:08:39] Speaker B: So shall we turn to someone? Because it picks up this tree imagery. [00:08:43] Speaker A: Again and also begins with happy, which is. I mean, that's not what the Beatitudes are. But that word has been used. There's just echoes through all these readings. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. So, again, the two ways, the happy are those who follow, happy are those who do not follow the advice of the wicked. And then it goes on to talk about those who are like trees, who meditate day and night on the law of the Lord. So their orientation, their attention, again, rather than being on those who are full of folly or wicked, who are only their own agenda, who are only running what will benefit them, whether it's at a political level or whether at a personal level, to turn our attention actually back to God and God's intentions for justice and mercy, and then that will be where nourishment is. Yeah. [00:09:29] Speaker A: An interesting imagery there of God. I mean, the sovereignty of God is presented here as something very grounded and earthy and with us and not sort of kingly and above. And I mean, clearly this is about creation, but not in the same sense that a lot of the Psalms talk about the power of God lying in that. [00:09:48] Speaker B: And I love that imagery of. They're like the trees, they're planted by the water. So it's not promising army raids and palaces. It's promising that you'll be nourished in your location, whatever else is going on, because of where you're planted. Like, you will, no matter what adversity you're facing, you will be nourished by God. And I think, actually, like Jeremiah as well, that sense of judgment, the wicked will not stand in the judgment. That sense that God is what, as it says, verse 6, God is watching over. So God sees when people are getting away with evil. God sees when people are lying and misusing their power. And this is not today is not the end of the story of justice. [00:10:28] Speaker A: I think that. So the eschatological lens, I mean, in any preaching, it's got to be there, or it isn't Christian, just to be very provocative. But, you know, when we look at the world, and particularly the global political state of the world, it does not really look like the wicked are reaching any kind of comeuppance. Or, you know, this is where some of this wisdom literature, you go, yeah, that's the order of the world. But it's not really, because what adherence to God can also do is bring you into suffering. [00:10:58] Speaker B: That's right. But I think remembering that so many of these psalms, and for Jeremiah as well, they're written in context where the wicked are winning, where there is evil and justice. And so what they're doing is casting their hope to a broader vision. So it's not written from the place of victory, which we can miss sometimes, particularly in those psalms, when it's like, bring down the enemies, and it sounds so violent. But if. If they are written from places of persecution and. And hardship, they're easier to understand and I think appreciate. So for us, it's not to pretend that everything's sorted now, because clearly it's not. But the kingdom that we're called to pray for coming is continuing to break in, and we're. We're called to have trust that it will ultimately come and that justice will happen and that people will be called to account, that there will be hope, that the lies will be revealed, that what is done in darkness will be revealed. Yeah. [00:11:50] Speaker A: And to reach, if it's not too soon, across to the Corinthians that death is not the last word. Because, I mean, that's the big picture. That is, this is the eschatological vision under which we understand all this to be happening. [00:12:02] Speaker B: So I kind of love this passage in Corinthians. I do continue to feel sorry for the people of Corinth because, you know, Paul is writing these long letters, and the church in Rome write the Corinth as well. We never get to hear the people of Corinth writing back and saying, actually, everybody, could you just shush? This is our perspective. But nonetheless, I do love this passage. And the fact that Paul says he's challenging people for not believing in the resurrection, clearly that indicates some people are doubting the resurrection. Like, that's the issue. This is. And he waits till nearly the end of the letter to bring this home. [00:12:33] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. My. My contention with the lecturer here is that I would have liked him to go on to verse 30. I know technically that might have made it a bit long. But you know, it's about the hope and you know, anyway, I just thought, oh, I want to read on to verse 30. [00:12:49] Speaker B: Well, interestingly, if people have been were preaching about it last week as well, because there's the passages, the verses just before where Paul talks about who witness the resurrection. I just want to do a shout out to the question of why women aren't included in that list. So the gospels testify to women being the first to witness the resurrection of Christ. Well, in the passage just before that, Paul or someone who has added to this letter, there's big debates about 1 Corinthians 14, whether Paul says women should be silent or not, or whether someone added this later. It would be quite awkward for him to then in the next breath acknowledge that women were the first at the truth and commissioned. Commissioned to go and tell the men. So that would be my reading of why that's absent about the women. But nonetheless in the passage that. So he details in all these other people. But it's more than that. He's not just saying that Jesus was raised and these people witnessed it. That's part of what he's saying. But he's also talking about the ongoing experience of the risen Christ. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Well, I wanted to talk about that as well because I mean clearly this passage is an invitation for the courageous and faithful preacher to talk about the resurrection, not explain it in the same way we don't explain the Trinity when it's Trinity Sunday, but proclaim it as. And I mean I do think there is a slight educative edge to preaching now because to get people to understand a bit where it's come from, but the metaphorical language and I'm not saying it did happen, but the category of resurrection was what they used to describe the ongoing experience of the presence of Jesus. [00:14:25] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:14:26] Speaker A: And it was an eschatological idea, an end time idea along with the day of the Lord in Daniel and the Spirit in Joel that became the Holy Spirit. This was a way. And also wasn't it in Judah, Some aspects of Judaism in 200 years leading up to Jesus, the resurrection of the dead was an idea. [00:14:48] Speaker B: Beginnings. Yeah. Different thoughts were evolving and I think for these earliest Jesus as communities. Well, first, actually, can we just say we're not talking about zombies. [00:14:57] Speaker A: No, no. It's a bit like the virgin birth in the sense that it's a theological idea to describe the particularity and singularity of this person. [00:15:11] Speaker B: And I think the gospels point to some of the like they hold the mystery because yes, Jesus has a body in the resurrection accounts, but he walks through walls. And so it's not. The notion of literally true is just very narrow. [00:15:23] Speaker A: And it's too narrow. [00:15:24] Speaker B: It's too narrow. It doesn't fit this category. The resurrection was totally unexpected. And what it is for Paul and for other, well, it's multiple things, but one of the things that it is is vindication of Jesus. So, so often Christians focus on the cross as the kind of pivotal point, but if there's no resurrection, there's no point because heaps of people were killed in that way. It was a brutal state sanctioned murder to stop people who were a threat to the state. So Jesus is killed as a terrorist. That's not, that doesn't do anything unless there's a resurrection. Because for Paul and others it's like, yes, it looked like foolishness at the beginning of the letter, looked like foolishness and weakness. And yet this is the one who was raised. And it tells us then about the character of God, the nature of God, who is radically non violent and whose life and love cannot be pinned down by the forces of empire. Now that's the message we need right now. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And in that sense then the resurrection is not understood as a final chapter in the Christian story, but actually is the beginning of something radically new. And so I would be, I mean, if it were me preaching anywhere, I mean, it's a tough call between Jeremiah and Corinthians here for me. And maybe together you could, you know, they go together. [00:16:33] Speaker B: But, and that sense in verse 13, that's why he says if he died in vain, why would we suffering. Like there's a direct link to the reality that there is that this life of the divine is more powerful than the Roman Empire or any empire that we might see around us, or any. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Grief or despair that we're sitting amongst. [00:16:50] Speaker B: And that it's working within communities, like it's actually changing how they live. So they're experiencing these gifts of the spirit that are empowering them to be, not competing. And I mean, they're still full of fights. We're all human and broken, but we're called into this way of love and joy and peace and can give our lives away in a different way. Because we know that the life of the universe is tilted towards love and. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Justice and that we are called to live in that reality. Which means in defiance of the evil and death. [00:17:20] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:17:21] Speaker A: And nothingness that's presented. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Exactly. Regardless of the outcomes, because we know that the ultimate outcome is coming. Like it's a different Sense of time. [00:17:31] Speaker A: And you know, we have to keep praying and coming back together to church and in other contexts to remind ourselves of that. I mean, you know, the loneliness of trying that on your own and you know. [00:17:44] Speaker B: That's right. [00:17:44] Speaker A: I've got not enough discipline for that. [00:17:46] Speaker B: No, exactly. We need to be in real time communities who are trying to love neighbors and enemies and forgive each other when we stuff it up again, again and again. [00:17:55] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:17:56] Speaker B: And, and that cultivating communities of hope. Not positive thinking, but gritty hope that the kingdom is coming. Just justice and we can be part of that work, that we actually have a role to play in that. In breaking of the kingdom. [00:18:10] Speaker A: Amen. Now let's move to the gospel. Are you ready to move to the gospel briefly? Yeah. What are the precise readings? Just to remind people, Luke 6, 17, 26. I'll just give you all a transition moment. [00:18:33] Speaker B: So this is a parallel of what is in. In Matthew, Matthew 5, 1:12, the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount. I, with some scholars tend to think possibly Matthews was earlier and then Luke's. People can happily debate with me about that. I'm not too wedded to it, but that's my hunch. And the big differences here obviously is that while for the author of Matthew, it's the poor in spirit, what do we have in Luke? [00:18:57] Speaker A: Just the poor. [00:18:58] Speaker B: Just the poor. [00:18:59] Speaker A: Just the plain old non spiritual poor and the hungry. It's very, it's very material. Well, yeah, yeah. [00:19:05] Speaker B: It's focused on matter. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and Luke's is obviously much shorter. That's right. And the juxtaposition, the clever way the poor and the rich in verse 20:24, the hungry in 21, the full in 25, like there's this juxtaposition through the passage that's very elegant. I would describe. [00:19:23] Speaker B: Okay. And it's got the woes. It's like, like it's got the big slap in the face. Matthew doesn't. The author of Matthew doesn't have that. So they've very different. Well, not very. I think they're quite different. Emphasis. So for the author of Luke, materiality, money is a huge, huge focus. And the call to leave everything is underscored again and again in Luke's accounts of what the disciples do and followers do that it's not the same in other gospels. It's a Luke and thing. And then in part two of the author of Luke's work in Acts, we're told in chapter two that everyone gives. [00:19:58] Speaker A: Everything and they shared everything in common. Common Sounds a little bit too. Yeah, I know, but that's. [00:20:04] Speaker B: And then. And then there's a terrifying story in Acts 5 about an ice and Sapphira who don't give everything and then have terrible consequences. So these focus. And you know, stories like the. The rich man that are only in Luke, you know, those kind of accounts. So this is a Lucan focus on. [00:20:22] Speaker A: Wealth, which in the Magnificat we are given. It's announced. [00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:20:27] Speaker A: Musically and poetically that what will begin in Christ is a reversal of these things, these earthy inequalities. [00:20:38] Speaker B: Exactly. And I think we really need to know that when we hear that and we need to let people know in congregations because if they come to church that day, maybe for the first time in months, they're told they're cursed. If they're happy and not crying, you need to be passively sensitive to that. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Or they're vaguely gaslit by being told that if they're in despair, that they're blessed. [00:20:56] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. So this is. It's important to unpack the broader theme for the author of Luke that this is that reversal of power is integral, so that the gospel good news isn't just. Not that it is anywhere, but it has real life implications for how we live as the powers that be are brought down. [00:21:18] Speaker A: So in Luke itself, my understanding is that this passage with Jesus on the plain, traditionally called the section of the gospel that's cohesive, began with him in the synagogue and now he's on the plane amongst a great multitude. No, I mean really, it's very exaggerated, or maybe not exaggerated. There's a lot of people around, a great crowd, a multitude of people. People from all across the region. They came to be healed of their disease. These are suffering people. That's right. And there was willy nilly cleaning of, you know, unclean spirits, cured, et cetera. He does only address the disciples though, with this passage. [00:21:59] Speaker B: Interesting, isn't it? But obviously. Well, obviously you would imagine that people can overhear like the. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:05] Speaker B: And for those, most of those overhearing if they're coming, most people were living in poverty, so they were in that first category of grieving and with a physical ailment. And physical ailment, probably. Yeah. So while we might hear it. Cause we may not have some, and some of us may. But for those of us who don't, just. Well, it's a guilt trip. It's actually this radical comfort to those, the majority of people who were suffering. And it is a challenge for those who have wealth. And I don't Think it is that call to be miserable. But gee, it's a call to be aware of the pain around us and to respond with empathy and compassion. I think that's at the heart of. [00:22:41] Speaker A: That and that God is located in the vulnerable to be revealed to us. I've got an image in my mind and when I was in my mid-20s, I had some time studying with the World Council of Churches Bossae and we went to Rome and had an audience with the Pope of some kind. It was all very interesting for this Protestant, but I was so struck by on the stage, in the larger audience context and Pope John Paul. It was at the time and just the people were lined up with afflictions to be blessed. I'd never, I mean that to Catholic listeners. I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I know about that. I didn't. Yes, but the vulnerability of that, the very visible infirmities and anyway, it's an image that has never left me. And when I read the story from Luke such as this, that comes into my mind. [00:23:28] Speaker B: So as well as God being with the vulnerable, I think there is a challenge and as practice we can avoid this. But I do think we need to speak about money and how we use our money. And so actually exploring what might this mean for those of us who are feeling like we're in that woe kind of category. What does that mean? What could that mean for Lent? Does it mean not buying anything new? Does it mean increasing how much I give away each month? Does it mean spending more time with those who are vulnerable? Because it's not. It is absolutely about wealth for the author of Luke. And I think that's fair enough. Let's not take that away. But it's also our gifts of time and. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Yeah, is it also. And I, you know, there's a bit of a trend on some social media platforms of buying nothing this year like this, this anti consumerism and bring it on I say. But I mean one practice could be something like that. Or someone, somebody I heard was only going to buy five things this year. [00:24:20] Speaker B: Or isn't that radical? If that's partnered with giving money away. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:24] Speaker B: What a Christian testimony that is. [00:24:26] Speaker A: And you know, questioning, you know, we're constantly told there's scarcity or not enough or we need more and so reframing enoughness. [00:24:35] Speaker B: Absolutely. It's a radical act of discipleship. I think it. And it kind of touches in too with living in that, that convictions of the resurrection, in that what we are constantly bombarded with, that we're not enough, that we don't have enough, that these are lies, don't listen to mortals and the mess of the culture. That we have a different. We meditate on different laws which are about. We are enough and so are those around us. And that we have a call to care for the vulnerable and to let ourselves be careful when we're the vulnerable too. [00:25:05] Speaker A: There's an image too, in my mind of the tree, like the planted, sustaining tree by the stream. And then the role that Jesus seems to have in this passage of the living, the life giving one who is healing and present. And he's touched, you know, people touch him. I don't know, there's just echoes for me of. Of Jesus almost being the tree in this story. [00:25:29] Speaker B: Oh, that's a lovely image. And I think that's a lovely way to conclude because the sense is that we don't try and live with this radical generosity in our own strength, that we draw our ongoing strength to disrupt culture, to reject those dominant themes from the living one, the one who has the water of life. Yeah. [00:25:45] Speaker A: And recognizing. So while the moral imperative is very much there for us to act, we don't do it in our own strengths. Yes. But also it is God's act first to us that we are living out of. It's not that we sit there trying harder to be worthy of it. It's that we have give. This is our gift. Live as if it's true. And these beatitudes, these blessings will manifest in that way. [00:26:11] Speaker B: Yeah. This kind of prayer of nourish me so I can be nourishment to others. Yeah. [00:26:16] Speaker A: That's a good spot to end, I think. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Thanks, everyone. By the well is brought to you. [00:26:24] Speaker A: By Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. [00:26:27] Speaker B: It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.