C212 Transfiguration

[00:00:06] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. [00:00:19] Speaker B: Hello, I'm Monica. [00:00:21] Speaker A: And I'm Sally. And today we're exploring the transfiguration. It's for Sunday, March 2nd. And the readings are Exodus 34, 29, 35, Psalm 99, Second Corinthians, chapter three, starting at verse 12 and then going into chapter four, and then Luke 9, 28, 36. Monica, I'm so keen to hear your thoughts about this Exodus passage. [00:00:48] Speaker B: Thank you, Sally. I mean, this passage, I mean, I'm familiar with it, but I haven't really done a lot of work on it. So this gave me opportunity to do some reading about what people have said about this passage. But I think before we begin to actually look at the passage, I'd like to set it in context in the literary context. And I think one needs to read this passage 34, 29 to 35 in the context of the larger narrative, starting at Exodus chapter 32, which is the story of the golden calf. [00:01:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:21] Speaker B: And Moses anger and God's anger. Moses intercession. [00:01:24] Speaker A: And he's smashing the. I love that image. So much of. I've had enough, I'm smashing. [00:01:29] Speaker B: So, you know, particularly after the golden calf, you know, Moses anger and God's intervention and God's anger as well. And then in chapter 33, God has kind of declared, I'm not gonna go with you anymore. I'm just fed up. I'm tired of you people. And then Moses intervenes and says, you brought us me. You made me leader. You brought us here, this far. And if you give up on us, then I can't go forward, really. And then God changes God's mind and the story continues. And then here Moses goes the mountain to convene with God and comes back. And here the people see that his face has completely changed and they're all afraid of him. So technically, this passage therefore comes at the end of those three chapters, where some scholars think it should have come somewhere in between. Somewhere. Anyway, that's not our concern this morning. But just to say that at this point, they would also say that these few verses is actually a merger of two different narratives. Okay? And for those of you who are interested in, you know, historical or Pentateuchal criticism and exegesis, they would say this is. This particular passage is a. Is a mixture of two narratives from. From E. Okay? E and P. And because there is. There's an emphasis on. There's a cultic element to it. And it's about worship. And there's the tabernacle in the background, you know, and the tent of meeting. [00:03:04] Speaker A: You know, sense of one person being representative. [00:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So that is it. But what has caught the attention of most interpreters are two primary concepts or words. One is this whole notion of Moses face was radiant, according to the nrsv, or some others will say shining. And the veil that is mentioned in verse 33. So, so therefore, you know, what does this mean? What does the shining mean? What is. How do you interpret it? And so on. So I just like to say that when I. Several years ago, my sister actually took me to this lady who was considered a sort of a local prophet to be prayed for, you know, so she could pray for me. And there were just several issues. So in the course of the prayer, she will also be giving a commentary on what she sees. And she was saying to me, I can see you walking towards the cross. I can see that your face is shining. And that. But occasionally you keep looking back. And so at the end of it, she said, you know, you need to concentrate and look to God rather than turning back, looking away. And at that time, you know, I, you know, with all my rational academic sense, it was soon after I came back from the US really after studies. And I was just, okay, okay. And I didn't really pay attention, but I always wondered, every time I read this passage, I think about that, what did she mean that my face was shining? And I guess from the interpretation or the reading of this text and others where the shining is mentioned. [00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, because we'll come to it again. [00:04:50] Speaker B: Yeah, well, no, but even within the Old Testament, we often use the Aaronic blessing. And, you know, and in the Aaronic blessing, what do you say? You know, may God's face shine upon you. So what does that mean? You know, so in a sense, the shining or the radiance of the face is an. Is an outward manifestation of your relationship to God. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:05:16] Speaker B: Okay. [00:05:16] Speaker A: And that sense. So in some of the work that I, when I was reading, because I haven't worked with this passage either, but in preparation debates about the veiling is the veiling, because I think we tend to, in the Christian tradition, assume it means the people are freaked out. So Moses has to have the veil and to cover them. But the counter view being that the shimmering of God might be diminished if it's exposed to humanity. Like there's these different ways of thinking. [00:05:41] Speaker B: About it, because the text clearly says, not here but elsewhere in Exodus, that If you cannot see the face of God and live. So how did Moses see the face of God and live? And so there are some interpreters who will say that his face was scorched by the radiance and the glory of God. So much so that he almost looked grotesque, and therefore the people were afraid. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Well, that's interesting, because in Isaiah, the prophet with the coals on his lips, so that. Oh, fascinating. That's not an easy shimmery. No, it could be quite a costly shimmer. [00:06:10] Speaker B: It is, it is. And so they say that his face was really quite transfigured. Oh, my goodness. And I think another interesting fact about this is the fact that the Hebrew uses the word karan. Okay. Which is actually from a root which means horns. [00:06:31] Speaker A: Yes, that's what I read too. [00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah. So literally and doesn't use the word light, which is. Or in here. And so there are, starting with the Vulgate and Jerome, they have translated it literally as the horn. You know, as the horn. And you can see medieval illustrations of this text. And if you look on Google, you can see Michelangelo's representation of Moses with the horns. And that's a literal translation of the Hebrew word. But I think this is also connected with. With some allusions to ancient Near Eastern mythology and how gods were represented. And gods were represented. Yes, sometimes with animal features, but also gods were, you know, shining and radiant in comparison. So there are several scholars who make connections with the influence that perhaps Babylonian understanding of the divine has made on this. The influence on this particular text and the representation of Moses, who is now, in a way, a divine representation. [00:07:48] Speaker A: That's right. So that's this. After the people making so many mistakes, God is with them through this mediation. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah. So in a way, Moses becomes a divine representation on earth. Moses is. Yeah, is someone who represents God, but also through the shining and the awesomeness of his face, is imbued with the authority of God. [00:08:17] Speaker A: Something of the character of God. [00:08:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So here, in a way, until now, you know, I mean, it doesn't stop, though. But until now, there have been several instances where the people have questioned Moses leadership and God and rebelled against him and complained. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Wow, they go back and die. [00:08:32] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, disobeyed him and so on and so forth. So here is a confirmation that this is, yes, you have selected me to be your leader. The people have, and God has too. And so, in a way, it's a merger of the two sources of authorization. And Moses is now, yes, confirmed as the leader who has authority. And some scholars, yes, have called it the Transfiguration of Moses. [00:09:05] Speaker A: So we'll come more to transfiguration soon. But shall we turn to the psalm briefly as well? Let's look at Psalm 99. [00:09:10] Speaker B: Okay. Psalm 99 is an interesting psalm. It's a hymn, you know, it's basically a hymn which is part of a collection of hymns that speak about the kingship of God. Yeah. But Psalm 99, starting at Psalm 95, and Psalm 99 is the only one that speaks of Yahweh as holy. Okay. And in a way, seems to also echo Isaiah, chapter six, where Isaiah uses, you know, the triple holy, holy. And in a way, also, it is based on the scene in Revelations, chapter 4, verses 6 to 11, where the creatures of God are singing day and night, you know, so it's a recollection of Isaiah 6 and also Revelation. And this psalm here is the, as I said, is part of that collection where holy statements are made about God. And it is interesting that in the first five verses, therefore, you know, the psalm praises, or the psalmist is praising God, for God is great and awesome, seated on a heavenly throne, exalted over all the nations of the earth. And God. But then the psalmist is also quite emphatic that this God, who is awesome, far removed from humanity, but is also one right here amidst us, merciful, caring, but caring about whom? About the treatment of those that are powerless in the courts of justice. And so, you know, there's an emphasis about this majesty of God and also about God's caring for the powerless. [00:10:52] Speaker A: It's such a powerful thing to hold those two together, because I think sometimes, at least for Christians, holiness can be imagined as being apart or pure, persistent. Where this imagery is holy and that is expressed in compassion and care for the vulnerable, involvement with them in Right. Involvement with them. [00:11:12] Speaker B: Right. And that is why this is. And this is a reason for praising God. [00:11:16] Speaker A: Amen. [00:11:16] Speaker B: You know, so. So this concern for justice, the God's awesomeness, God's concern for justice, is a reason for praising God. And then in verses six to eight, you know, you have an emphasis on various individuals who have interceded on behalf of God's people, you know, and names are named so Moses and Aaron and Samuel, and we know the ways in which they. And what is significant here is not only does it tie into the lesson in Exodus that we have just talked about, but also the fact that God, not the people, intercede, but God listens and God responds, and God responds to the distress of the people. So this is a God who Allows intercession. Who changes God's mind because of the intercession. It is a God who hears and forgives. [00:12:12] Speaker A: Amen. [00:12:12] Speaker B: And that's what happens in Exodus as well. Yes, the God, God forgives. And again, this hearing God, this listening God and this forgiving God, the God of justice, the God who is holy and awesome is also worthy of praise. And therefore, the psalm ends with verse nine, which is a call to praise God, the Holy One. [00:12:34] Speaker A: Amen. And I used to be quite allergic to language of king in the past, it just felt like too much of Empire. I kind of buy. And it's very male language and so on. It's shifted quite a lot for me in more recent years. I understand those concerns still. But in saying God is king, you were also saying that tech bro, billionaires are not king. You were saying God is king. No, president is king. And I think that for me, that's a word of hope right now and that God will be calling to account. [00:13:08] Speaker B: Aren't there songs which told a king of all kings? [00:13:10] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. And it's a political statement as well as a theological statement. And I think it's a word of hope. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely is. But for me, it really speaks well into the context of these other texts. Yeah. And it is this God that authorizes leaders like Moses and perhaps leaders today, you know, to speak, if we really respond to the call of God and. [00:13:36] Speaker A: To look for them who are speaking like God, longing for justice and mercy. [00:13:39] Speaker B: Right, right. Yep. So before we go to the Corinthian text, a short break. [00:13:54] Speaker A: So Corinthians, Monica. Now, this is what's really fascinating about New Testament writers is they are engaging with Old Testament texts and they're reworking them in very creative ways sometimes. And we might be comfortable with that. We might be uncomfortable with that. And it's not uniform. Different. Different times use text differently as well as sometimes even the same people. Paul, you know, uses different texts in different ways. So here in the beginning of his second letter that we have, at least to the people in Corinth, there's been disputes, and he talks about that a little bit. But then he turns this imagery of Paul, Paul turns this imagery of Moses. And clearly whatever happened on the mountain with the shimmering is what he has in mind. And so while that horn imagery is that literal translation of Quran, he. Paul, obviously in the. The Greek that he's having access to, he. He interprets as shimmering. And then he plays with the whole analogy of light and veils throughout this text in quite Intriguing, creative ways. And remember, we all need to remember. I know this is obvious, but sometimes it just feels like it's not. Paul's Jewish, of course, so he's writing as an insider. He's not as an outsider critiquing Jewish people. He's working with the text of his faith. [00:15:06] Speaker B: Yes. And I think that should. Should also remind us that, you know, how important the Old Testament is for people of Paul's time, but also for us today, that we really can't understand a lot of the New Testament without the allusions that the Old Testament provides. And the fact is that these New Testament authors were engaging with the Old Testament through and through, and he doesn't further explain it. [00:15:34] Speaker A: So he assumes they all know the story. Like he just says Moses and the shimmerings, and he assumes they're all imagining the rest of the story. So what he does with it is tricky, though, because he compares the shimmering of Moses to a greater shimmering that comes in Christ. So that's obviously a Christian proclamation that's saying that something. Moses was significant, but something more significant has now come in Christ. [00:15:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I guess Paul here is addressing his opponents who probably still held on to the fact that the Hebrew Bible or the Sinai covenant is the basis of authority. And here, what Paul is trying to do is to emphasize the crucial point that in Christ, perhaps this covenant, this old covenant, is null and void. So in a way, people of Israel in the Exodus texts didn't grasp the core meaning of Moses's shining face. And it is very similar to how Paul's audience today is also unable to understand that there is a new covenant. [00:16:44] Speaker A: Yes, exactly. And for him, the ongoing focus is when fellow Jewish people are using their particular understandings to exclude non Jewish people. So that's what he's trying to say. All of that is past now because in Christ there is no Jew or judgment. [00:17:01] Speaker B: I'm not sure how I feel about that. I know as someone who deals with the Old Testament. [00:17:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really. I think we need to honor that this is a really difficult reading of. [00:17:09] Speaker B: The text, you know, to say that. Is it really null and void? You know, I'm not so sure about that. And so, yes, I would like to have seen the Sinai covenant juxtaposed with the covenant of Jesus, the new covenant. [00:17:29] Speaker A: And this is why I think it's so helpful for us to remember this is one perspective. And the author of Matthew has a different perspective. For the author of Matthew, it's not one jot shall be removed from the law. It's A very different understanding. And the author of James is also, I think, really clear about that. So this is at this heat of the moment argument Paul's having with the people in Corinth. This is. This is where he goes, I think we need to kind of read him in context. [00:17:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I just wonder if maybe these people whom he was addressing were. Were not. Were over emphasizing the importance of the Sinai covenant over. Against, you know, an interpretation of that that Jesus Christ has offered. Yeah. [00:18:16] Speaker A: So what he does is really curious with the veil because then he flips it. So in the Moses story, Moses wears the veil, but then Paul says, in Christ the veil is removed from us. So he kind of imagines the community is like Moses, and then in Christ the veil is removed. So he plays with the imagery and so this kind of proclamation behind it about the true light being revealed in Jesus. So I think that's why it's matched up with transfiguration readings, because of this imagery of. And Jesus being the true light, which is. It's amazing that in John's Gospel there is no transfiguration. But in John's Gospel, Jesus is the light. So it's this theme that keeps coming up in different places. I was a bit disappointed the passage didn't keep going in Corinthians, chapter four up to verse six, because I feel like that's the high point really, in some ways of that passage, because it goes on to then link creation with the light. So the God who said, let light shine in the darkness has now shone in our heart. So it's the intimate God again, like the psalm. So that the massive God, like the psalm, but then intimate, shone in our hearts. God from the beginning shone in our hearts in to give the glory in the face of Jesus. Now, Paul hasn't seen Jesus face in. During Jesus ministry. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:19:31] Speaker A: It's such an evocative. It kind of speaks perhaps to his ongoing mystical experiences of Jesus, but that these shimmering faces is now somehow in our heart. The God of the empire of the whole universe is now within, you know, within us. So I think that it doesn't take away the trickiness of his reflections on the law. But I think he's trying to do a very big picture thinking. And that's where he goes, yeah, yeah. [00:19:58] Speaker B: I'm trying to see how we translate these into daily life. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:05] Speaker B: Into our lives. [00:20:06] Speaker A: That's a beautiful question. So what I also love about this passage actually in Paul is that. And it's in the hymn, you know, change from glory into Glory. Paul expects not Just himself, because he talks in the plural. We have all experiences. We will be changed. So there is not just a sit back and look at Jesus shimmering kind of idea. It's that through the presence of the Spirit who brings freedom through this intimacy with Jesus, we will become more like Jesus. So we will become, if we take the gospel seriously, choosing to use our power for others, not over others. We will be about healing and nourishing and so on. [00:20:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I, I, you know, we, we talk about the fact that, you know, we are all little, we have to be like little Christ. And there is something I know I'm wrestling with is are there any physical markers that express our relationship to God? Okay, we talk about, you speak through word, you manifest God through your action. I'm just wondering, is there a physical connotation? And I think the woman who prayed for me is basically saying that I. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Think there can be. Can I share a story briefly before we jump to Luke? Once in, when I was in the congregation, I asked people to reflect on why they were followers of Jesus and then people who wanted to shared with the whole congregation and within the congregation at the time, there was someone who was an asylum seeker and they'd been in detention on Christmas island and from a non Christian background. And they said there was some people from Sri Lanka who also in detention who were Christians and they had a peace, a peacefulness that he just didn't understand. And they're in detention and so he wanted to find out more about why. And they explained they were Christians and it was that. So why not? Well, it would have been physical. It would have been on their face, in their demeanor, in their gestures. So I think it can be manifest. [00:22:00] Speaker B: I think it can be, yes. I think, you know, if you are at peace with God. Yeah, I think it reflects in how you present yourself physically to people. But anyway, that is something I'm thinking about. [00:22:13] Speaker A: You can always. [00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah. What does this transfiguration mean for us, for us as followers of Jesus Christ? [00:22:21] Speaker A: Well, I think the transgression story might help us. So let's turn to that. So it's in Luke 9. It's also in Matthew and Mark and in each of those gospels, including in Luke. It doesn't just happen nowhere. The wider context is that Jesus has just said to people, I'm going to be betrayed, I'm going to be beaten and killed and raised. He also says raised people sometimes forget that part, which is pretty crucial. So the context is this revelation of the texture of what this Messiah is. So they're you know, Peter and the others, I think, are pretty hopeful that it's going to be political uprising and a king finally. And you know, that living under occupation is horrendous. And Jesus said, this is the texture of the, of the Messiah ship that I bring. And it's about choosing not to inflict violence, but to absorb violence and, and, and demonstrate that are. This divine power is stronger than all your human violence in the Resurrection. So we come to the mountain. I get a bit cranky when New Testament scholars say that Jesus here is being imaged like Moses. On one level he is, because he's shining, but then Moses is with him. [00:23:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:28] Speaker A: So he's on. Maybe initially he's imaged as Moses, but then Moses and Elijah are there. And so it's bigger than it's. In the same way that Paul is suggesting this is something bigger. That's what the author of Luke is doing as well, and the other synoptic writer. And so this is a Christological claim. This is saying that in this one we behold God, we behold divine glory embodied in person. Not just a face, the whole person. I kind of imagine it sometimes like, well, like a veil, I guess, but something being torn back and you're seeing what it really is like inside. [00:24:00] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I have reflected on this text in the past. Not more recently though. But at that time I didn't really pay attention to this face shining light like the sun. Okay. They're all now divine beings. The authority. And as I said, this is a physical manifestation of the authority with which. With. Of God that has been entrusted or given or bestowed on them. And they work with that, with that authority, they speak with that, with that authority. And so once you are in communion with God, I think we are all called to be transfigured in ways that are. That are helpful, that are expressive of our relationship to God. You know, I think you can play around with what comes. And I actually have read a piece where the scholar Vitor Westhelle talks about even transfigure. You know, when we read the biblical text, a story is transfigured. [00:25:08] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:09] Speaker B: Through our reading of it. When you put it into conversation with what's happening in the world or. So contextualization is basically a form of transfiguring the text and we are transfigured. [00:25:21] Speaker A: By it as well. Yes, it's both ways. [00:25:23] Speaker B: Yeah. So yeah, just to make connections between the text and us, I guess I find that really, really helpful. But another thing about the transfiguration that is important for me is the fact that the location, where it happens in the Gospel, it happens on a mountain. Now, we don't know which mountain, but anyway, it happens on a mountain. But these transfigured individuals don't remain on the mountain. [00:25:50] Speaker A: They have to come down. [00:25:51] Speaker B: They have to come down. You know, and I think sometimes there are people who have embraced leadership and think they have to be distant from people, distant from the community. Too important to do things, set aside, set apart. [00:26:07] Speaker A: Monica. [00:26:08] Speaker B: And no, that is not what you. [00:26:11] Speaker A: Amen. You come down the mountain and then you heal the next, or you help you be part of the community life. [00:26:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think so. Transfiguration, you know, is this. But also the emphasis on intercession. Part of our calling as transfigured individuals is to intercede on behalf of the poor, on behalf of the voiceless, on behalf of the suffering, you know, and in a way, we are not therefore living up to our call as leaders if we do not also embrace this particular. [00:26:47] Speaker A: Oh, I think that's important. So there's so many things that are interesting in this passage. One is that the NRSP translates it as his departure. It's actually Exodus as his Exodus in Jerusalem. So it's got a connotation of liberation, I think, in that. And it's also on the eighth day, so the sense of the new creation. But that. So possibly, I think it's often argued Moses and Elijah representing the law and the prophets and. And that foundation with Jesus and then talking with Jesus about what is to come. But when the voice comes from heaven, after Peter's tried to make them all just stay on the mountain, stay in the high experience, listen to him. And I feel like that's such an important call because again, in our worldwide, global village right now, if we listen to what Jesus says in the Gospels, then the call to justice, the call to mercy, the call to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, isn't optional. It's actually really core. If we read the Gospels, not just pretend to make Jesus into what we want Jesus to be. Right. So in listening, we are transfigured, and hopefully we can be little pockets of transfiguration in the world. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah. I think these. These are quite significant texts. And. And I think as we prepare for Lent, or we are in the midst of Lent when we are. [00:28:11] Speaker A: No, not yet. It's a starting. [00:28:13] Speaker B: It's just starting. Yeah, I think. Yeah. We need to focus our attention or meditate on. Yes. Where do we stand in terms of our relationship with God? Amen and how much of what we do, what we say, how we behave, how we look, actually give. Give insight into. Into not just us, but into. To the God we believe in and profess in. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, can people get a sense of the kingdom. Yeah. [00:28:43] Speaker B: Through our work and so on. [00:28:46] Speaker A: Well, I hope you all enjoy these. Working with these readings. There's beautiful opportunities for artwork with transfiguration. [00:28:53] Speaker B: So that could be good to do as well. Yeah. Yeah. Do look at the horn of Moses. [00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:57] Speaker B: Because you see, actually, you know, it strikes me now in chapter 32, the bull, the calf, you know. [00:29:03] Speaker A: Yeah. It's the horn. [00:29:05] Speaker B: So are you going to follow that bull or are you going to follow. Follow Moses, you know, but. Yeah, with the horns. [00:29:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. In God's way of justice and holiness. Amen. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Thanks, everyone. [00:29:17] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:29:22] Speaker A: By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.