C234 Pentecost 8

[00:00:05] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. Hi, I'm Sally Douglas. [00:00:18] Speaker B: And I'm Howard Wallace. [00:00:20] Speaker A: And this week on by the well, we're discussing the readings that are for Sunday, August 3rd. It's Pentecost 8, or Ordinary Sunday 8. And it's Hosea 11, 1 11, Psalm 1, 107 verses 1 to 9, and then jumping to verse 43, Colossians 3:1 11 and Luke 12, 13, 21. We might have a little bit of a look at each of these readings. But Howard, let's have a look at Hosea. Can you give us some context for this? Quite, quite tricky in some ways. Biblical book. [00:00:50] Speaker B: Yes. But the lectionary picks out some rather interesting sections from it. We're into. Well, we're beginning on the minor prophets these last three weeks and plus this week in the midst of the year of the prophets. [00:01:06] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:07] Speaker B: Hosea is the first of the minor so called minor prophets. Minor, not because they're inconsequential or not important in some way, but because the 12 or so books fit into one scroll. They're minor in length, if you like, rather than importance. We've had a look at Amos so far and now we're into Hosea, the second week of Hosea. Just to recap a little bit on him, he also, like Amos, he spoke around about the same time, in the middle of the 8th century, maybe a little after Amos. Both of them spoke to the Northern kingdom, which is the kingdom of Israel, which at this time was under King Jeroboam ii. And it was a fairly profitable way or wealthy time for the northern kingdom. But Hosea has some, some critical words, significant concerns about that. Amos, as you may remember if you've looked at it recently, was concerned very much with issues of what we would call social justice. Hosea a little bit different. He does that a bit. A few social issues are important for him, but one of the ones that he focuses on, the issue he focuses on is that of worship. [00:02:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:30] Speaker B: In particular, arguing that the people have not given enough credence to Israel's God. [00:02:38] Speaker A: Concern about idolatry and going after other gods. [00:02:40] Speaker B: Yes. And particularly in this time of prosperity. I mean, there's quite a temptation to sort of give some credence to the fertility gods of the Canaanites, especially baal. [00:02:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:52] Speaker B: And he plays a lot on that. That name baal, which also can be just simply the word husband as well, is for the name of the God. [00:03:01] Speaker A: So metaphors are really important in this book, aren't they? So they're really central metaphors. Yeah. [00:03:06] Speaker B: Last week's, when we began on Hosea, we were focusing on the metaphor of marriage. [00:03:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:12] Speaker B: So called marriage. At least Hosea's personal relationship with. With a woman. [00:03:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:03:19] Speaker B: Whether she was a prostitute or whether she was his wife who then committed adultery, where it's all a bit cloudy. [00:03:27] Speaker A: It's very. It's all. And it's quite tricky too. I think we need to flag that as well. So the metaphor is exploring the imagery of God as the husband and Israel as the wife. But. Yeah. [00:03:37] Speaker B: And chapters one to three can lead you in slightly different directions too, if you read them carefully. But this week we have moved in chapter 11, towards the end of the book, Right. At the end of the book, into a different metaphor. That's right, entirely the one of parent child relationships. And we have, I think, one of the, well, for me, most meaningful sort of passages in the whole of the Old Testament. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Oh, how that's beautiful. Say some more about why it's so meaningful for you. [00:04:05] Speaker B: Well, well, you have. God is seen speaking through the prophet, of course, and the passage is full of tender language of love of a parent for a child, at least for a few verses. And then you hear, as appearance might, after verses three and four, which are about God's love for Israel, then it breaks off quite suddenly, do these expressions of anger and rage in a way, the way the waywardness of Israel and the prophet speaking for God talks about Assyria coming and Syria being, if you like, like Egypt was a place of captivity. [00:04:50] Speaker A: Terrifying. [00:04:51] Speaker B: Oh yes it is. It's the new Egypt. If, like. But then all of a sudden after ver. 5 and 6, we're back into more expressions of how can I give you up? [00:05:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Type of thing. And in the end we see this debate going on between within God's mind, heart, whatever, about weighing up tender love towards his child over against the. The anger and the. The disappointment of the way they've behaved. [00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:05:25] Speaker B: And these two are thrown up and there's a balancing act going on. And in the end, in verses 9 to 11, the very end, God finally decides choose love rather than anger and punishment and that. And interestingly enough, he does so because he is not mortal. [00:05:49] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's the one with the power, chooses to use the power for mercy very much. What's interesting in this imagery of God as a parent is that it isn't gendered either. It's not father language, is not here. And so the language is like a mother God, like a father God, either. You know, the one. The one who lifts up the infant onto the shoulder. Yeah, it's very beautiful imagery. [00:06:09] Speaker B: It is, yeah. [00:06:11] Speaker A: So that's. [00:06:11] Speaker B: I mean, yet it's very political. It's not just sort of. Well, it's using the language of parent, child, but it's all about politics and about wealth and the way the country is managed. Because the prophet sees a looming threat in Syria, which is going to come. [00:06:28] Speaker A: Which is. [00:06:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yep. In. In a matter of only about 30 years or so. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah. So it does come. There is strife. Does come. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Yes. And. And in the midst of that. But it's also, of course, in that context, a message of hope beyond whatever lies ahead with Israel. [00:06:47] Speaker A: So for all the beauty, though, I would flag for people, it can be tricky. So if people have had tricky relationships with parents or with parents who have been hot and cold, because you could read this passage as hot and cold, you know, I'm loving you, but I'm also furious that you're like a lion. So I'd hold it delicately with. If I were preaching on this passage and flagging. This is again, our united church understanding of the biblical text, that it's unique and prophetic and apostolic testimony, but it's not the literal word of God, and that we come to the text engaging with what the prophet is giving voice to God. I think helping people into that complexity can help. And this is one expression of imagery of God. One thing that I love about the passage, and this is throughout. We see it in the Psalms and throughout the Old Testament is this sense of God's relationality. God is not. I mean, even though we have those hymns about unchangeable and everything, you know, which are really problematic when you read the biblical text, because God is struggling with, you know, being in relationship. It's hard being in relationship when you're furious at someone and you're trying to love them like that. That's hard. And we kind of see that difficulty. [00:07:52] Speaker B: We do in a few places. But here is one of the significant ones, I think, context. [00:07:59] Speaker A: And while we didn't. While we're not talking about last week's reading, again, displaying that that's also really difficult, the husband and wife imagery, because of the patriarchal construct that sits behind that, in which women are seen as property and we. Women's value is determined by having wives, by having male children and so on. So there's a whole lot of problematic things around all of this as we come to it that we can openly engage with people are up for those kind of conversations in parishes, I think. But just to know that you can do that, you can do some deeper reading. [00:08:28] Speaker B: Oh, yes, yes, you can talk about it. And even with last week's reading, I mean, it's not clear that he goes deliberately and marries some. One prostitute, essentially. But, you know, it could be that things just fall apart and that becomes for him, maybe for his followers or the prophet's followers. I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, you a symbol of what's happened between. [00:08:52] Speaker A: Maybe the whole thing's a metaphor. [00:08:53] Speaker B: Maybe. Maybe, maybe. Yes. All right. We wanted to just have a brief look at the psalm. [00:09:07] Speaker A: Yes, let's have a look. [00:09:08] Speaker B: It's Psalm 107, 1:9 and then 43. At least they're the verses set for us in the lectionary, which I think if we don't read the whole psalm sort of gives us a slight skewed view of. Of what's going on here. This is a community thanksgiving after deliverance. But the way the. By God. The way the psalm is set out, it lists a number of different sorts of groups of people who have been delivered at various times by God from various circumstances. And all we read in verses 1 to 9 is the first group, those who supposedly wander in deserts, whatever that might mean. Now, some of these groups are suffering in some way or other, or have suffered in some way or other because for their. As a reason, they're in fault, they've done something wrong. Others seem to possibly have suffered innocently in that context. So it's not quite clear. I mean, so we've got the wanderers in the desert, which also sort of sends our mind back to Israel's earliest days. Of course, we've got. Then after verse nine, just following in the four groups, we've got those who supposedly sit in darkness. Now, I'm not sure whether we're talking about prisoners or whether we're talking about exiles, both of which relevant Israel at different times. Then we've got those who are sick in their sinful ways, presumably have done something wrong. And lastly, which is the strangest one, and there's a bit of a puzzle, those who go down to the sea and trade. Now, I'm not sure they got a thing against fishermen or sailors. [00:10:46] Speaker A: Pirates. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Yep, maybe, yes. Anyway, they're all in some ways endangered, but it's the steadfast love of God which actually delivers them from whatever that danger may have been and that. And then the psalm ends or starts to move towards an ending with a mythological description of God as creator. And that really is the. The crux of the whole thing. God as creator is the one who can rescue them and who has control presumably of. Of all creation in their view. But that rescue comes is not without its hardship being experienced before. I think one of the things good about the psalm, this particular psalm, is that there are a number of things you can use in worship. Verses 1 to 3 can make a really quite nice call to worship. [00:11:43] Speaker A: Yeah. Give thanks to the Lord. The Lord is good. Yeah, yeah. [00:11:47] Speaker B: And even sections 33 to 36, which are not in this week's lectionary reading. I think you can pick bits out of that in. [00:11:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:55] Speaker B: And use them as your declaration of forgiveness. Like, you know, he turns rivers into a desert and springs of water into thirsty ground, etc, he turns a desert into pure to water. This sense that God can reverse. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:11] Speaker B: Whatever's what looked like just complete tragedy. [00:12:14] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That there is no. [00:12:15] Speaker B: I think that can be really quite meaningful. So. [00:12:28] Speaker A: So I'd like to just spend a minute talking about Colossians. So Monica and I were talking about this text recently. We don't know who wrote this. It increasingly scholars question whether it is by Paul. It's certainly seen as an early text regardless of who wrote it. And within it we have hymn fragments. So last time, a few weeks ago, we were looking at Colossians hymn, which is this fragment from early church worship that's preserved, recorded in the letter. Today it's looking at chapter three and new life in Christ. And just what's astonishing. I mean it's not just only in Colossians, but what's astonishing in Colossians is this overarching proclamation that the fullness of the deity dwelt with us in Jesus. So this is not just a prophet or an inspired person. This is the full fullness of God in person with us. And that. That therefore changes how we live now. So it's not a moral imperative, therefore we should try harder. It's the author or the authors of this text are really clear that something is changed from within because of the presence, ongoing presence of this one. [00:13:35] Speaker B: I like the way it starts. So if you have been raised with Christ, I mean, we often think of our resurrection as something that. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Down the track. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's not. It's already. [00:13:46] Speaker A: Exactly, Howard. It's a really realized soteriology, I think in a sense here. So it's the impacts of the presence of the one who was and is and is to come is actually changing people's lives. Now, so the passage ends with. There's no longer Greek and Jew. And we know a similar passage from Galatians. We're all free. Christ is all. And in all, like, it's a very beautiful, very beautiful passage. But what it, what I love is its talk of what's being put to death and what's being brought to life. So I think sometimes we can read this too quickly and think it's all about sexual purity where it really, it's greed is really central to this list. So passion, evil, desire, which can be, you know, I want what they're having or you know, wishing someone ill. You know, it's not just one kind of desire and greed, which is idolatry, the authors say, which I think is a. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Pretty insightful thing to say and not dissociated from Hosea. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Exactly. Really, really linked. But then I just love what it goes on to say. So it's not just don't do this, don't do this. It's talking about the new life in Christ, the one who is the fullness of God with us. So get rid of anger, wrath, malice, slander, abusive language. I wish we'd all read this out in church regularly. Like I think we could all do with a bit of this. Do not lie to one another. Seeing you've stripped the old self away. Cause you have this new life in Christ you've closed yourself to with the new self, so you've got this new dignity in Christ which is being renewed in knowledge. So there's this sense of ongoing renewal through the presence of Christ. So it's very, I think it's very beautiful. And then I don't know why the lecture cuts off verse 12 because it's just gorgeous. So if you were reading Colossians on in worship, Maybe keep verse 12 as well as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness and patience. I mean, you keep going, but that's pretty beautiful. So that's the why. Because that's how God is. When God dwells with us in person, God in Christ. When we see, if we look at the life of Christ, it's compassion, it's kindness, it's humility and meekness and patience. That's what we see in the Gospels in the testimony of who and how Jesus is. And that's what we're called to live out. So I think there's something really powerful about that. Yeah. So I encourage people to have a, have an exploration of Colossians because I think it's a pretty cool text. So we better talk about the Gospel. [00:16:10] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:12] Speaker A: So Luke 12. Now this is only in Luke, this story and I think it fits with a Luke and theme which we see throughout this Gospel which is concerned with wealth. There is a significant focus on wealth and of giving wealth away. It's not absent from the other gospels but it is a particular focus. So for example in book two of Acts and the emphasis in Acts two is that they sell everything and share it in common. And this is the kind of overriding ideal I think of this author, that those with wealth give it away. This is really central to a practice of faith and, and faithfulness and it's. [00:16:56] Speaker B: Who one attributes it to too. [00:16:58] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:58] Speaker B: I mean that's the point in Hosea, because they're at a fairly prosperous time. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:03] Speaker B: And he's wanting to warn them that this will not last. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, that's a really interesting point too because I think, and it's not very different to now, but certainly in this period, in the Greco Roman period there was an assumption and we see it sometimes in the disciples reactions to Jesus teachings that if you're wealthy you must be blessed by God. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Oh yes, yes. That's what Hosea was fighting. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Yeah. And I mean we're still fighting that there's, you know, prosperity theology and God wants me to be a trillionaire or whatever where the gospels consistently in different ways present Jesus as challenging that and saying, you know, blessed are the poor and give your wealth away if you're rich. [00:17:42] Speaker B: And it's so easy on this again back to Hosea. It's so easy to move from, you know, things are good, so they must be the blessings of God. [00:17:50] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:51] Speaker B: And then to ask the question, well, which God? [00:17:53] Speaker A: That's right. [00:17:55] Speaker B: And God as God is easily replaceable in such context. [00:17:59] Speaker A: That's right. [00:18:00] Speaker B: I earn my wealth, I generate it or. [00:18:03] Speaker A: That's right. And then it can easily turn into. And if you're not wealthy, therefore you must be. Must be your fault in some way. [00:18:08] Speaker B: Yes, yeah. [00:18:09] Speaker A: Which still happens as a dynamic in our culture. Absolutely. [00:18:12] Speaker B: We see it in the news every day. [00:18:13] Speaker A: Oh, how exactly? So this, what I find interesting about this person who comes to Jesus is that he's recognizing something about Jesus having authority, you know, come, can you sort this problem out with my family? But totally missing what Jesus is teaching about. I find that really interesting about him. [00:18:32] Speaker B: Yes. It's a funny sort of question to ask. You know, it's almost as if Jesus is seen as the expert on everything. [00:18:38] Speaker A: That's right, yeah. You've solved this. So can you solve this personal issue for me? Like totally, totally missing the call to love neighbor and, and that call to give things away. So that's really fascinating. And then Jesus tells this story which I wish some people in public life could hear today, really. So our cult, I think something that could be really interesting to talk about in a, in a preaching context is while in Western context religion has slipped from the mainstream. It doesn't mean that our culture is valueless like our, our culture is saturated with values, but the values of the economy of consume and of constant proving of status or value by what you consume, whether it's wealth, status, stuff, how many followers you have on social media like that. People have been drowning in that rhetoric. [00:19:31] Speaker B: Constantly getting about the question of security in life. [00:19:34] Speaker A: That's right. And the gospel of Jesus Christ that we follow and stand before is so countercultural to that saying value is not in what you have. Your value is as a beloved child of God. And actually what you have needs to be shared with those who have not. Like they're such different values. And I think sometimes we're a bit nervous to talk about things like wealth in the church, but I think we need to. [00:19:59] Speaker B: But the other thing to note is that what Jesus eventually says, even in the parable that he goes on to, is actually fairly common sort of wisdom. [00:20:09] Speaker A: That you can't take it with you. [00:20:10] Speaker B: Not specially. Yes, it's not specially Christian in the sense of standing over against him. And it's good secular wisdom. You just can't take it with you. [00:20:21] Speaker A: People don't seem to understand that though. [00:20:24] Speaker B: But then I think you've got to push it deeper than that too because I don't think Jesus is just reiterating popular sort of wisdom in that context. No, something deeper going on here. [00:20:36] Speaker A: So that last line about. So it is with those who sought treasures for themselves but are not rich towards God. [00:20:41] Speaker B: And there's a. I think, at least I'd say there's a question that's not posed directly as a question there, but not certainly not answered. What does it mean to be rich in God? [00:20:51] Speaker A: It's a beautiful question to ponder. And if we think about that earlier, the command, the dual command of loving God with our whole energy and loving our neighbour. That's a beautiful thing to think about. Well, it's more obvious how we love our neighbour, how do we love God, how do we reach towards God in our energy and time? I mean, it can include generosity but also attention. Like do we actually. Are we attending to God's presence in our lives. [00:21:13] Speaker B: I think even in that, I mean, Jesus and the Good Samaritan pushes the question a little further because the lawyer in this case, in Luke's case doesn't question about what it means to love God. He just focuses on the neighbor sanctifying the neighbour. But he misses sort of the whole point, I think, of how does one do that? Yeah. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Wanting to nitpick who has to be kind to and who he can ignore. [00:21:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the similar things going on on here too because you notice as you hear the parable of the rich fool in this context, there's no, as you might expect, judgment in heaven upon this man and his thing. So he hasn't necessarily been corrupt or dishonest in his dealings or anything like that. So what life are we talking about? Where are these so called riches, whether they be of God or what? I think we're talking about life as it is, which is what the Colossians reading is about. [00:22:15] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. It's about now. Yeah. So this is not some fire and brimstone fear story, it's about storing up. [00:22:21] Speaker B: Brownie points for heaven. [00:22:22] Speaker A: That's right. It's a wake up to what is of real value, what is eternal and what is temporal. In terms of eternal, I don't mean in terms of ages, I mean what is lasting and important. [00:22:35] Speaker B: And you go back to the lawyer. To love God and to love neighbour is to live as people who live in God's life in this context. [00:22:44] Speaker A: That's right. So it invites a deep, I think, consideration of discipleship. So how are we being rich towards God and how are we relating to our stuff? Particularly because our culture is drowning us with a particular set of messages. Everywhere we go we're told, you know, whether it's the bus stop or when we open our computers about we must buy this or we haven't done that. How do we form communities of resistance? Resistance to that and how do we form communities that can offer a prophetic alternative? Because it's not making people happy. Like levels of depression and anxiety are so high in our culture, which is constantly being fed these values that are actually not true and are not life giving. So I think one thing that I would love to invite people to think about. I've been reading a bit more about Wesleyan practices of having they called it, which is quite cool. They call them bands like sports. Small groups were called bands and in. We haven't done so much in churches over recent decades having small groups. I know they used to be popular but, you know, maybe not weekly, but what would it mean to gather with others monthly and reflect on how we're using our times and our time and our money and our resources? Because I think we. Because the cultural messaging is so loud about. Accumulate, accumulate. We need communities to support ourselves to. About how are we living richly towards God? How are we living richly towards a neighbour? How. How do we make those decisions about our money and our available time and our gifts so that we can be part of what God is doing within and among us now from that space of living out our discipleship. [00:24:15] Speaker B: And I think one of the things strikes me is it's not a question, at least in relation to Luke, about we should be behaving differently. I think it's a question of how we perceive our. Our life in this world. So it's more actually of. Of perceiving our life in. Well, as Colossians says, in Christ and Christ being all in all. And how we loving our neighbour is loving God and loving God is loving our neighbour. These two, they're totally related. They are, yeah. [00:24:50] Speaker A: And I think. I mean, I think the author of Luke is pretty keen on practical action, but I think, yeah, not from some moralist perspective, but from this. The kingdom is. Is close at hand and joining with it become like it. Yeah. So I hope people enjoy engaging. You might even want to talk. I. It feels like money's a bit of a taboo topic in worship, but maybe actually talking about how do we live ethically because I think people are yearning to. To explore that. So enjoy everybody. [00:25:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:25:21] Speaker A: By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.