C237 Pentecost 11

[00:00:05] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. [00:00:16] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Sally Douglas. [00:00:19] Speaker C: And I'm Monica Melanchthon. [00:00:20] Speaker B: And you're listening to by the well. And this week we're looking at the readings for Pentecost 11, which is on Sunday, August 24th. And the readings are Jeremiah. So we jump into a new Old testament text. Jeremiah 1, 4, 10, Psalm 71, 1 6, Hebrews 12, 18, 29. And we're still in the gospel of Luke, chapter 13, verses 1 to 17. So let's have a look at Jeremiah. [00:00:46] Speaker C: All right. Okay. You know, he's called the weeping Prophet because of the fact that he, you know, there are several laments in Jeremiah and also called the confessions of Jeremiah. And he was living in, you know, he started his ministry as a prophet sometime around the 13th year of Josiah, which is thought to be 627 BCE. And this was. Yeah, not too long. Not too far from the destruction of Jerusalem in 587. [00:01:22] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:01:23] Speaker C: So this was very tumultuous time. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:01:27] Speaker C: And he came from a small town called Anatoth, which is about three miles northeast of Jerusalem. And if you read through these first few chapters, you learn that Jeremiah was already identified as a future prophet by God. And God, you know, knew him even before he was formed in the womb and so on. And he continued to prophesy until the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians. But he does not disappear from view until about 582bce. So the length of his prophecy was about 45 years in all. And he's best known to us as a person because of the way he. His own reflections. These are the confessions. And also to his scribe Baruch, who recorded the events in Jeremiah's life. And so through these autobiographical and biographical reports, he has been, he has earned the reputation of being a mournful prophet or the weeping prophet. And because he expresses himself without any reserve, the anguish he experiences as the servant of the Lord. And I think in a way he reveals a side to the prophet prophets that is rarely seen. An emotional individual powerfully feeling, you know, his. His experiences for. And also, you know, his commitment and his zeal for the word of Yahweh. And so in much of his work in the book, you. There's little good news to. To report to the audience, partly because of Babylonian Babylon's hegemony. And he announces the impending doom and expul from the land. But he was also hopeful, you know, because he looked beyond the exile to the day when God would continue with God's people in a new covenantal relationship. And this work reveals more of the individual than any other book, actually. [00:03:29] Speaker B: And it's one of the longest books in the Bible as well. So it's a really interesting text. [00:03:33] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:03:34] Speaker C: And there's a lot that he says that we can identify with. So if you read Lawrence Booth's introduction to the old Testament, the 2012 version, he says Jeremiah was a man born out of his due time, because a person, a person in ancient address with whom modern readers can readily identify. [00:03:55] Speaker B: That's really good. And I think if we think about our own lives when we're going through a terrible time, it actually doesn't. Well, to me, anyway, it doesn't bring comfort if someone's trying to say, cheer up, you know, it's gonna. It's all great. Whereas someone who can actually sit with you in the. The grief or the suffering and name it, that's a far stronger consolation. [00:04:18] Speaker C: And Jeremiah was also straddling two different imperial regimes, the Assyrian and the Babylonian. Of course, Assyria was waning in influence, and Babylon was. Was rising. And there was Egypt as well, trying to form alliance with Assyria to overthrow Babylon. You know, so, so, so therefore, you know, it was. It was a tumultuous time. [00:04:41] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:04:42] Speaker B: And Josiah had been trying to do these reforms, and then Josiah's killed. So there's so much going on within the. [00:04:49] Speaker C: Within Israel. [00:04:50] Speaker B: That's right. As well as all the external. [00:04:51] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:04:52] Speaker B: So in this passage, we hear the beginning of the call. [00:04:56] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:04:57] Speaker C: Yes. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. [00:05:01] Speaker B: I love that. [00:05:02] Speaker C: Which is, you know, God's word to. To Jeremiah. So basically, I think the. The text begins with confirming for Jeremiah that he was foreordained to be a SPOK spokesperson for God, you know, chosen long before he was even conceived, in a sense. And here Jeremiah is an adolescent, you know, probably under. In. In his early teens, and he has some doubts about his ability to speak. But God is assuring him of God's presence and God's equipping him with the tools needed you know, or. Or the courage needed to. To speak the words. So. So to speak. [00:05:42] Speaker B: And yeah, I love this pattern in Old Testament where often people are called into roles. They're like, I don't know how to do this. And I think that's a really good reminder because those people who think they are completely ordained to do something that. That can be quite a worrying sign. Having some humility in there. I'm not sure, really. [00:05:58] Speaker C: I mean, I once heard someone say, there are no volunteers in the Bible. And, and the thing is that, I mean, most of them have been called. They didn't volunteer. They call and they respond. [00:06:07] Speaker D: Although I. [00:06:09] Speaker C: Maybe they could have said no, and I don't know. But, but the thing is, it is, it's. It's. It's almost like Jeremiah had no choice in the matter, you know, that he was called and this call has come from above. And so since the call has come from above, it's about the divine searching and finding someone, reaching downward to the individual. [00:06:31] Speaker B: And the promise isn't that it's going to be awesome, but the promise is that God will be with him. And I think that really resonates with the way in which, for example, in Matthew's Gospel, Jesus makes the same kind of promises. It's going to be difficult. There's going to be conflicts. And we heard last week about there's going to be divisions. But this promise, I know that's in Luke, but there's this sense of there's going to be conflict or divisions or it's going to be suffering or persecution. But I'll be with you. That's the promise. [00:06:55] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:06:55] Speaker C: And I think another comforting thought is this whole notion of God actually searching and reaching down, out to us, you know, and we are often instructed to reach upwards to God. So here Jeremiah is given three tasks. To pluck and to pull down, to destroy and to overthrow, to build and to plant. I did a Bible study a long time ago. [00:07:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:07:24] Speaker C: This particular text. And I think it reminds me of what I said in the earlier podcast about deforming in order to form. And so here you get this notion, you know, you have to pluck and pull down, to destroy, to overthrow, to build and to plant. You know, so, you know. Yeah, how do we understand these tasks, which sound like a script for destruction, you know, war and. And demolition. I'm thinking of all the renovation shows. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. You have to look down before. [00:07:57] Speaker C: That's right before you. [00:07:58] Speaker B: I think that is such a great question. Like, what needs pruning in our lives? You know, what is just producing, like, dead fruit? What needs to be cut out? And it could be a habit, it could be a way of speaking, you know, whatever it is. [00:08:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, but, you know, but I think we need to understand this text also in the. Against the backdrop of what was happening at that particular time, you know, with these foreign regimes and empires taking over, taking over the land it was a time of turmoil, of siege, of war, exile. Absolutely. [00:08:34] Speaker B: Absolute disruption. [00:08:34] Speaker C: Yeah. And so, you know, but it was so. But it was also a time of dreaming about and thinking about restoration and renewal from what they were experiencing currently. [00:08:47] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:08:47] Speaker C: And you know, Gaza just sitting amongst those ruins, you know, everything that has been, is. Is destroyed. And what are you thinking about? Yeah, you know, hope. So. So, but actually, you know, if you look at this text in the context of the whole book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah as a whole, like a. Is a is. Is what. What one author calls a diptych. Are you from. I think it's like two parts and there is a hinge in the middle. So you open it up and on the one side it says pluck and pull down, and on the other it says build and plant. And you. The two cannot be distinguished from one another. They are connected. [00:09:27] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a beautiful image. [00:09:29] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:09:29] Speaker C: And. And the two are not mutually exclusive. So the entire book for the first 25 chap. The plucking down and the next 26 onwards to 52 is the building up. [00:09:43] Speaker B: Oh, that's beautiful. [00:09:45] Speaker C: And I guess what the, what the text is saying is that the destruction. Yeah. These verses, particularly the destruction, makes healing and surviving possible because we are forced to look at loss, massive loss, massive destruction straight in the eye. [00:10:06] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:10:07] Speaker C: And dismantle various forms of denial. So in other words, we. We sometimes start envisioning a future without actually paying attention to the present. Okay. So we need to pay attention to the present to see what it is that we need to first destroy. [00:10:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:10:24] Speaker C: Because the future is dependent on. [00:10:26] Speaker B: On that. [00:10:27] Speaker C: On that as well. [00:10:28] Speaker B: And it's such an. It's hope in that challenge. Because I think when incredible calamity occurs, we can think the world is ending. [00:10:35] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Because the world as we know it is ending. And for the people at this time, it must have, I imagine, felt like that. And so that. No, no, God is at work even in this. And you have work to do amidst this. [00:10:48] Speaker C: Right. So in a way, the, The. The passage I think is. Is asking us not to deny. [00:10:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:55] Speaker C: You know. [00:10:56] Speaker D: Yes. [00:10:56] Speaker C: The destruction and the building and the planting moves the individual beyond the denial. Right. And despair to meaning making, to envisioning, to hope and so on and to action. Yeah. So. So yeah, there is. There's a particular book which I have found very helpful by. By a Korean author writing in the US And I'm not able to remember his name right now. But. But in a way, he. He said. He states that the. The two belong together. [00:11:28] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:11:28] Speaker C: Beautiful. And translates into what he calls an anatomy of. [00:11:34] Speaker B: That's lovely. That's really beautiful. Well, shall we turn to The Psalm, Psalm 71, just for a moment or two to explore this? [00:11:41] Speaker C: Yeah. Again, the psalm is an individual lament. And, you know, it's. Because dominant in the psalm are words of petition for help. [00:11:52] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:11:52] Speaker C: And affirmations of trust. So some people think it's a psalm of trust, but it's a combination of lament and. And trust. And there are three parts to the psalm, each ending with a note. With a note of praise. But of course. Yeah. So, of course, we. Our text for today is just the first six verses. [00:12:12] Speaker D: Yes. [00:12:13] Speaker C: Which is part of the first section. And there is a, you know, again, an individual who is in distress. And so the words like deliver, rescue, incline your year, save. [00:12:28] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:12:28] Speaker C: You know, and God is my God. You know, I mean, it is described with a number of images of God as the rock of refuge, the strong fortress, my rock, my fortress, and then just as my God. [00:12:42] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker C: What is also significant is that in verses 5 to 6, this is someone who has not come into the knowledge of God yesterday, but someone who has known God for a long time, you know, from the time of birth, and. [00:12:57] Speaker B: Has this strong sense of God's presence throughout. Like, I love this, particularly as we hear about and think about Jeremiah. So it's not just that God is with the prophet from. From the womb, that God is with. With this psalm writer and with each of us, if we're called into the prayers with God is with us. Right in the world. [00:13:13] Speaker C: All of us. All of us. [00:13:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:15] Speaker B: I love that. [00:13:16] Speaker C: And so the psalmist is saying, you have been my hope, my trust from my youth. In fact, from my birth, I have leaned on you and you have protected me while I was still in my mother's womb. So this ties neatly with the assurance that God has given to Jeremiah as well. And hence the psalmist can continually praise God. [00:13:37] Speaker D: That's right. [00:13:39] Speaker C: So in this particular psalm, I think there are feelings of anxiety, doubt in God, and there's lack of trust. Yep. [00:13:45] Speaker B: The wicked are around. There are threats. [00:13:47] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:13:47] Speaker C: And these are. I think what the psalm is teaching us is these are normal feelings. These can strike an individual at any point in life, and they can strike several times. Not just. [00:14:01] Speaker B: That's right. It's not one. [00:14:02] Speaker C: You know. [00:14:02] Speaker B: No. [00:14:03] Speaker C: This is not a movie. Yeah. And the psalm is not. Not denying this reality. Doubting God, showing feelings of anxiety, wondering should I trust God in this or not. You know, these are common human responses to what this human is experiencing, exactly. [00:14:22] Speaker B: What I also love about it is it's really demanding towards God. Rescue me, be a rock, to me, be a refuge. I think there's so much invitation in that. For us, it could even become a prayer. Some prayer words. Be to me, a rock of refuge. That could be something that you take if you're going through a stressful time, whether it's a meeting or an exam or whatever it is, to have something like that to rest with, be to me a rock and refuge. [00:14:47] Speaker C: And, you know, I think, you know, if you were to look at it, psychologically speaking, the psalmist is using language that stirs God to act, you know? [00:14:56] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:14:57] Speaker C: Oh, my God. This is my reputation at stake. [00:15:00] Speaker B: The psalmists are not afraid of saying that, are they? [00:15:02] Speaker D: They're like, come on, God, I can't. [00:15:03] Speaker B: Praise you when I'm dead. [00:15:03] Speaker C: You to do it now, you know, so. So, yeah, so this. This psalmist. Yeah. Is. Is basically saying, do not deny this reality. [00:15:13] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:15:13] Speaker C: Instead, use these moments of anxiety, of lack of faith, of doubt to contribute to the formation of faith. [00:15:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. [00:15:27] Speaker A: Did you know you could join our Facebook group by the well for extra content and discussion. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Okay, so let's turn again to Hebrews. We talked about this recently, and we talked about how this text in particular is beloved of some Christians and is avoided by others. And we also talked about how it has been used in supersessionist ways to relegate Jewish faith and tradition to the rubbish part. You know, this is dead and done, finished. And then Christianity is new. And as I shared last time, that I don't think that's what's going on within the text. So you can. You can read it on a surface, surface level and take that away. So as we come to chapter 12, I think this is so important that people be more aware of it. So it begins with this discussion in verse 18 and so on about what was before. And it has imagery of blazing fire and darkness and gloom, and there's. And I think we're quite nervous about that kind of imagery these days in mainstream churches. But it has, you know, it's evocative of all kinds of Old Testament passages, but including the famous passages in Exodus going up the mountain, and God's presence seen in the. In the thick mist and so on, and people saying to us, no, we don't want to see God because we'll die. So you can. You can be the spokesperson, the media, the go between, but we don't want to come close to that. And so that's the kind of backdrop. And if some of the audience for this letter are Jewish, they're deeply familiar with, they know this, they don't need to be, but it's, it's affirming of their faith. It's not a dismissal of their faith. And I think for this author, or if it's more than one author, the authors, it is around saying this is the same God who is now present because of, because of Jesus, because their convictions about Jesus being the God one, the one who unites heaven and earth. Earlier in Hebrews. This is beautiful image of Jesus, the anchor of the soul, almost like hooking heaven and bringing it down to earth. That kind of sense for us. And so the worship is still as awe inspiring, but there's somehow it's now accessible. But Monica, I feel like we've lost a bit of awe in the church in worship sometimes. So let me. Can I share a thought or two? [00:17:45] Speaker C: Sure, sure. [00:17:46] Speaker B: So I think some. I heard this fantastic. I can't remember who said this, but someone recently in a, in a podcast or something I heard was talking about how in lots of mainstream churches we've reduced Jesus to like our best friend who sells sneakers or like he's, you know, just this cool guy who just, you know, wants to support us all the time. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I get that impression too, where we've. Because of people's reaction against real or perceived expressions of church, where it was far and brimstone, that kind of fear. We've almost gone the other extreme, where it's so casual you wouldn't even know it was worship. Like, it could be a footy club meeting or something. And so because, well, you're a local. [00:18:26] Speaker C: And you can say that, so I. [00:18:28] Speaker B: Know you can all write to me and tell me I'm wrong. But at the end of it, it talks about in 28. For therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us give thanks by which we offer to God an acceptable worship with reverence and awe. So it's not saying they were afraid and stupid in the desert and now we're so cool and it's all just relaxed. It's like reverence and awe are still integral. And so for me, the question is, well, how might we do that? Not in fear mongering, not in emotional manipulation, but when we turn up for church, do we believe God's in the room? You know, we need to take the shoe, metaphorically our shoes off again. Like, this is sacred ground. How do we do that? [00:19:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I totally agree with you that some of those elements of awe and fear are perhaps lacking, you know, within the church. I keep thinking of an example someone shared with me many years ago in India. You know, a lot of the depictions of the divine, particularly in tribal and rural India, you will find that the, the divine is presented quite almost grotesque. Right. You know, tongues hanging. [00:19:38] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:19:38] Speaker C: Big eyes and blood sometimes. And so the, the minister who was interviewing these people said, how can you worship something that is so grotesque or, or, you know, unpleasing to the eye? Because most of the Brahmin divine beings are soft. [00:19:56] Speaker D: Yes. [00:19:57] Speaker C: Yeah. Nice, beautiful, etc. So the, the villager apparently responded by saying, how can you worship someone who you do not fear? Ah, you know. [00:20:06] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:20:07] Speaker C: So there is, there is an element of, of mystery of. [00:20:12] Speaker D: That's right, yeah. [00:20:13] Speaker C: And you know, the proverbs, the beginning, the fear of the Lord. [00:20:15] Speaker B: That's right. It's the beginning of wisdom. [00:20:17] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:20:17] Speaker C: You know, what does that fear mean? It's not mean. Means that it paralyzes you. [00:20:21] Speaker B: No, exactly. So it's fear as in awe, awe struck. Because God is awesome and I love in the Psalms, so. And I feel like there's so much we can regain and I'm sure it's happening in lots of places. I'm not saying, you know, my sneaker comment is about everywhere, but yes, we believe that God intimately loves us and knows us from the womb, but God is also the God of the universe, you know, so let's. And who longs for. Is crying out for justice and mercy for the vulnerable. So let us have some respect, let us have some reverence. And that might look different in different places, but I think it's really worth taking seriously. [00:21:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So in this text, basically there are two mountains that are being compressed. Mount Sinai and Mount Zion. [00:21:07] Speaker D: Yep. [00:21:08] Speaker C: There is also, you know, the, the terror of. Of. Of Mount Sinai. [00:21:13] Speaker D: Yeah. You know, yeah. [00:21:15] Speaker C: Based on what was reported in Exodus 19 and 20. [00:21:19] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:21:20] Speaker C: But here Mount Zion is the heavenly Jerusale, joyful assembly of God's. [00:21:25] Speaker B: All the angels. [00:21:27] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:21:28] Speaker C: And so here it's the city of David, namely Jerusalem, which belongs to the living God, you know, so. And you know, the, the living God, because the temple. The temple is there and this is the community that is in fellowship with God and God's angels and so on. So. So, you know. Yeah. There is a shift that is happening, happening from the fear of Exodus 19 and 20, which the people, including Moses experienced to. To this old. From. So. And that's the old covenant to a more new covenant. The grace, the forgiveness and the access to God. And I think it's a text like this that can sometimes actually contribute to our. To a rather mis. Misplaced understanding of who. Yahweh. [00:22:17] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:18] Speaker C: The Lord of the Old Testament is. I agree, God is all fear, creating anger, violent, etc, whereas the Old New Testament God is grace and forgiveness. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:22:31] Speaker C: And so on. And I don't think that is, that is true. [00:22:34] Speaker B: No. And I, and I don't think that's probably. I mean, I know we can read it in that way, but I don't think that's really what's going on in the text either. Even though people use it in that way. [00:22:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, but I think you're right. You know, we, we need to approach God. We bit with awe, you know, and mystery. Some people think they know everything about God, you know, I admire those people. So here, you know, the author is, is calling for that, this recognition of who, who God is. And I think it's both. [00:23:10] Speaker D: That's right. [00:23:10] Speaker B: And have that gravitas. [00:23:11] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. Okay. [00:23:13] Speaker B: Shall we just look briefly at Luke 13? So context is everything here. We're told by the author it's Sabbath, holy day, rest day, synagogue. So these are really important parts of it. This is only in Luke, so it's an interesting thing. It's also curious that here it doesn't happen very often. It happens at least one. One other time in Luke where Jesus initiates the action. This woman hasn't asked Jesus for healing. Jesus sees her and acts and she has this disability and then there's conflict. So Jesus already talked about there's going to be conflict. And now we see the conflict happening. The religious leaders, or at least one of them is unhappy. Seriously, why did you have to do this on the Sabbath? Of all the days. He had six other days. What are you doing? [00:24:02] Speaker D: Right. [00:24:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:03] Speaker C: I think, you know, for me, what caught my attention is first of all, and just then there appeared a woman appeared. A woman. You know, appear. Mean. Almost like magic. [00:24:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:24:14] Speaker C: You know, so it was. It's an interesting choice of, of a verb, I guess. [00:24:18] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah. [00:24:20] Speaker C: And you know, she was bent over, unable to stand. And I remember the countless Bible studies I've attended as a youth. You know, the woman being a metaphor for us as individuals and everything that bends us over, you know, and in, in incapacitating us from. [00:24:38] Speaker B: And Jesus liberating us from. [00:24:39] Speaker C: Liberating us from. Oh, that's interesting. So for me, I, I've often felt that Sometimes Jesus does things in order to, in order to convey a message that is about something, others. Yeah. Something else altogether. And so here it is. Yes, it brings healing to the woman, but it also says something about the Sabbath. [00:25:02] Speaker B: It does, yeah. And how we use our power. Yeah, that's right. Also I think it conveys so in the time. I mean, this still happens in disgusting ways, but people with disabilities being regarded as secondary or impure or excluded. And Jesus calls her a daughter of Abraham. So it's not after she's healed like she, like this is who she is within herself. She is beloved and important. And it's not that she's a second class citizen. So in practice she probably couldn't go to the temple because she had a disability because of the constructs around understandings of purity and so on. But Jesus is seeing her, caring for her and calling her beloved. [00:25:41] Speaker C: Yeah. And so of course the, the leader of the synagogue is upset. [00:25:45] Speaker D: Yes. [00:25:46] Speaker C: You know, that this should not be done. And, and Jesus responds by, by saying that he didn't do this in order to break the rules of the Sabbath, but he wanted to liberate her from her infirmity, you know, but, you know, but the Sabbath was a day of rest, but it was also a day of, of, of expressing your, your praise and thanksgiving. Thanksgiving to God. And so why can't this woman also participate in, in that. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. [00:26:18] Speaker C: But the synagogue leader of course says, oh, she had six days. Yeah, she could have done so. So Jesus then says, yeah, but you do it for animals. You feed the animals. So why can't this woman also be freed from her, from her? [00:26:33] Speaker B: Which I find slightly tricky because it does to me sound a little bit like the author of Luke is equating women with animals. And then it reminds me of the commandments about don't covet your neighbor's house and wife and donkey. It's like, oh, come on here, women are possessions. But anyway, Jesus does still seek to say, use your power for healing and liberation. It's. I just wanted to flag too. It's, it's certainly not a comfortable thing in corrections to talk about. And, and for good reason. I, in some ways. But I think it's interesting in this story, it's her, her disability is presented not as, it's nothing to do with sinfulness, which is a common assumption in the ancient world and still, still dominates in many places still. But in this construct it is the power of evil. It's cosmic evil that has bent her over. Now I'd be Wanting to talk about that in, in worship, even just to name it, as this was the worldview of the time. You don't have to believe that now. Or you might want to talk about how we might understand that metaphorically. What are the systems of evil that continue to bow people down? And that could be the way in which taxation is not taxing the rich and putting the burden on the poor. Or it might be the burden of endless productivity, which means people are no longer rest. You know, we could, you could talk about that in a range of ways, but I think it's a really worthwhile thing to, to point out and then to explore what, what powers of evil continue to bow people down. [00:27:57] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I, I, I think another thing that struck, that struck me was that the appropriate response of the people who watched this miracle take place. [00:28:04] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:05] Speaker C: Is one of rejoicing that someone who is, has been Bent over for 18 years, is now 18 able to stand up and praise God instead. They, they, they, you know, they focus on, oh my, A rule has been broken, you know. [00:28:16] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:28:16] Speaker C: So who makes these rules? Yeah, that's right. And for what, and for what purpose? So I guess for me, if I were to preach, my response would be, am I the bent woman or am I the question? [00:28:30] Speaker B: Oh, that's. [00:28:30] Speaker C: Who would you identify with? [00:28:32] Speaker D: Yes. [00:28:33] Speaker C: In this story, you know, of course, there's Jesus as well as a character. There's a crowd. So if you were to do a biblio drama, you know, try to figure out what each of these characters would say. [00:28:45] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:28:45] Speaker C: But I think oftentimes we, as, as people, we, we may be more the synagogue leader. [00:28:53] Speaker D: That's right. [00:28:53] Speaker B: You've broken the rule that we like. And, and Jesus is not nice here. He calls the synagogue a hypocrite. And I think this is really helpful for us thinking about the, the readings about causing division as well. The call to follow Jesus is not to be nice and placating, but is to speak truth in love. But it will be pretty direct sometimes. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:18] Speaker B: Trying to wake people up. And we need to hear that word. Us too, when we're the one who needs to hear it. [00:29:21] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:22] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:29:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Enjoy, everybody. [00:29:24] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:29:25] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:29:27] Speaker A: By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrienne Jackson. Thanks for listening.