B248 Pentecost 26

[00:00:04] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. Hello everyone, I'm Fran Barber. [00:00:18] Speaker B: And I'm Monica Melanchthon. [00:00:21] Speaker A: Welcome everyone, to the discussion. This week for the 26th week of Pentecost, Monica and I will be focusing on 1 Samuel 1, verses 4 to 20, and Samuel 2 verses 1 to 10, story of Hannah and the gospel of Mark, chapter 13, verses 1 to 8. And we will note that we're recording this a day or so after the outcome of the US election, so our conversation will be coloured by the impact of that. We're going to begin with the Samuel passages with the fantastic story of Hannah. And the books of Samuel are separated for us in our Bibles. But actually weren't two books in the first. You know, they were one whole book. And we've got it beginning with this woman who is in deep distress. And we'll talk through what happens in that. But who's. Who comes to praise and glorify God and speak of a righteous future and hope and then through her person those things come to be. [00:01:37] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think it's important, Fran, that we also acknowledge the fact that within the Hebrew Bible, that is the Jewish canon, the books of Samuel come after the Book of Judges. Okay. In the Protestant canon, we have Ruth. That separates the two. [00:01:56] Speaker A: Okay. [00:01:56] Speaker B: But it's important also therefore to acknowledge how the Book of Judges ends. And that is, you know, it was just chaos, chaos everywhere, anarchy. People were doing what was right in their own eyes. And so as a follow up to that is this book where the first two chapters talk about this woman's struggle to become pregnant and have a child. And that child then is offered back to God and becomes one of the leaders of Israel just before the onset of monarchy and plays a very crucial role in the selection of the. Of the king. The king. [00:02:32] Speaker A: Yeah. And anoints Saul and David. [00:02:35] Speaker B: And David. [00:02:35] Speaker A: So she's a pivotal, transitional moment, is Hannah? [00:02:39] Speaker B: Yeah, she is, yes. And therefore this character is not often uplifted like many other women characters in the Bible. But I think she is, as you say, a very pivotal character. And I'm really happy that we are looking at her today. [00:02:56] Speaker A: I remember hearing Ben Myers, a theologian, Australian theologian, who's now in Brisbane, giving initially flippant, but then he's not flippant at all. So it got quite deep. But, you know, what is the Bible? And now how would you describe the Bible and his primary response before he got much Deeper was. It's a story of miraculous births. And for me, that has. I mean, when you think about it, that's a really good description. And here we have one of them. [00:03:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:28] Speaker A: You know, birth of life through, you know, impossible means, humanly speaking. [00:03:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:03:35] Speaker A: So we begin in the temple. Oh, no, we don't. Oh, yes, we do. Elkanah's sacrificed, and he's got two wives, one of whom, Pennon has produced lots of children, but he prefers Hannah, gives her a double portion. [00:03:54] Speaker B: But she's not able to have children. [00:03:56] Speaker A: No. [00:03:58] Speaker B: And I think what I would like to say here is that very often in the biblical text, you find several stories between Rachel and Leah, between Sarah and Hagar, this competition between women for having children. You know, one is capable, one is not. And this creates a sense of animosity and conflict between two women. Now, there is no detailed indication of what the relationship was between Penina and Hannah, but it is possible there was some conflict, you know. [00:04:37] Speaker A: Well, I mean, she's horribly cruel, as you say, pena na here. I mean, I wondered. I mean, in a sense, Sarah takes things into her own hands and banishes Hagar. And like Rachel and Leah, well, they don't really resolve their conflict at all. But here, Hannah actually goes to God. Like, there's a sense in which perhaps we can wonder. [00:05:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:05:04] Speaker A: That she doesn't seem to indulge in that sort of. She moves. She steps away from that conflict and difficulty. [00:05:10] Speaker B: But, yeah, in fact, she's the only woman who approaches God. You know, let me begin by saying that, you know, she seeks recourse from her inability to have children by engaging in a complex set of ritual actions. Okay. She prays to Yahweh, the God of Israel, according to 1 Samuel 1, which we have, which we are reflecting on today. And actually, she's the only woman in the Hebrew Bible who is explicitly said to have done so. [00:05:45] Speaker A: Right. There's a great boldness to that. [00:05:47] Speaker B: And then she utters a vow in 1 Samuel 1:11. And so here also, she's one of only three instances in the Hebrew Bible that a specific woman is identified as making such a pledge. And the pledge she makes is, if you give me a child, yeah. [00:06:06] Speaker A: I'll hand it over. [00:06:06] Speaker B: I'll hold it to him. And that the others you will find in Proverbs 7:14 and Proverbs 31:2. So she. And she said to weep and fast as a part of this ritual process intended to evoke a divine oracle. Yeah. Which indeed happens as the priest Eli comes to her and he witnesses her praying performance, and he announces to her eventually that God will grant the request you have asked. So in a way, her prayer and her vow reveals to us that God saw her misery, God understood her anguish. God answers her prayers, giving her what she wanted, namely a son. So one of the things between, for me, at least, one of the big things about that Hannah is known for is prayer. And prayers, of course, are a way of connecting with the divine. And without the help of a ritualist, prayer is something that one can do, you know, anywhere, anywhere, anytime, aloud, silent. And so it's an unmediated access to God. And this was particularly appealing to women at a time when women could not be ritualists themselves. Yeah. So therefore, praying by women and prayers by women have actually undermined quite blatantly and contradicted religious traditions that have attempted to enforce silence on women in the worship space. [00:07:48] Speaker A: Right. That's very powerful, very important observation from. [00:07:51] Speaker B: So no matter what, you know, the church says about women not doing this, can't do this, can't do that, prayer is one thing they could not deny. [00:08:00] Speaker A: No. So I was curious here that she's praying by just moving her lips but not speaking out loud, because prayer was normally out loud. So there's a subversion in the fact that she's not vocalizing. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she knew what she was saying, and obviously God could hear her. God could hear her, but people watching her, like Eli, thought she was crazy. So. Yeah. So therefore, I think what Hannah's story, I think, reinforces for me is that women have been central to the prayer tradition, to its vital vitality and sustenance. And it is an area of the church's experience and practice in which women have never been silent and have always participated. And so the praying tradition of women reflects the yearning of women, okay. To find listening and responsive ear, particularly when people around you are not hearing you or not hearing you or listening to you or listening to your expressions of sorrow and struggle and even joy, your dreams, your desires, your hopes, then you articulate them in silence or aloud to God without. Yeah. And at least. So that's one way of. That women have kept their ability to speak, you know, going. [00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you're speaking in ritual religious terms, but I can't help hearing an echo for many of the women in the United States today and onwards, who are very likely to be feeling similar levels of being silenced or not heard on. Of fears not being acknowledged and a certain, perhaps a hope in the figure of Hannah in terms of the agency that can be found. [00:10:00] Speaker B: And I think the other thing I'd like to reinforce here is that Hannah is not. Just every woman is. She's not living in her father's house. She's living in her husband's home. She's not a mother of children, but at that time, the expectation was she would be a mother of sons. And so Lillian Klein, she talks about the fact that she is an Other. She has been otherized because of the fact that she was not the normal woman. And so there's a sense of unworthiness and, you know, marginalization that she has experienced. And so, yeah, she's. I would. That's another aspect of her identity. Yeah. [00:10:49] Speaker A: And I'm referring now a bit more to the hymn or prayer that she speaks. But there's something incredibly powerful about the awe and the intimacy dynamic that's going on in someone like her. That this God who creates the world and makes things right and brings justice and righteousness on this grand scale is a God to whom I may plea. And that. Does that creation work in someone like me? [00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, maybe we are already venturing into the second part of the story, which is Hannah's song, but I want to call attention to the fact that the song is, you know, is. Is also another form of prayer to God, and it begins with the praise of Yahweh for delivering Hannah from the enemies. And what is significant is this is something that Siyo Nehaveya calls attention to, is that she's singing in praise of Yahweh for delivering her from her enemies, one of whom was Yahweh. Yahweh's self. Okay. Because it was Yahweh who had closed her womb. And so. And so she. In some ways, Yahweh is the Lord of wombs. And so she is. Yeah, she is. First of all, I think, through her prayer to God, again, according to Sione Hawea, she is actually seeking control over her own womb. You know, so she's praying and. Yeah. Is trying to liberate her womb from God's control in that way. [00:12:49] Speaker A: I don't know how well, I'm open to. I'll have to think about that a bit because, like, who is God in this song? Is not all powerful. There's not an unlimited power here. But God does kill and bring to life, raises up from Sheol, makes the poor rich, brings low those who are proud, and the poor from the dust. There's something sort of comprehensive about God's power here. So I'd need To think a bit about whether I. [00:13:23] Speaker B: Well, basically what. You know, I haven't read the paper, but I remember hearing it a long time ago, ago. And that is that, you know, her vow is an attempt to claim control over her. [00:13:34] Speaker A: Oh, I see. Yeah. [00:13:35] Speaker B: Okay. And so her words, in a way, release Yahweh's control. Her words, her vow, I will do this if you give me a child, is releasing Yahweh from Yahweh's control over her. [00:13:50] Speaker A: Yeah, that connection helps me. Yeah. [00:13:52] Speaker B: And then she releases her son back into Yahweh's hands. Yeah, yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker A: One of the more powerful lines of this hymn is, for not by might does one prevail for anyone. Not all powerful. For anyone living under sufferance and oppression. That is a word of hope not believed a lot of the time, but spoken and sung in various forms. [00:14:22] Speaker B: And. Yes, that is true. And what is also significant about the song is that, you know, it follows her. The realization of her prayer to God for a child. And there is no mention of children in the song itself. [00:14:39] Speaker A: No, that's true. [00:14:40] Speaker B: You know, she just begins. She begins the prayer by. By saying, my heart exults in the Lord. My strength is exalted in my Lord, and my mouth derides, my enemies, because I rejoice in your victory. And so that is one reason why some scholars would say that this song was not authentic to Hannah, but some public hymn from. Yeah, yeah. But I think in trying to interpret why she may have chosen this particular song to sing at this particular time, it has been suggested that, you know. Yeah, she. There is a movement from a personal sense of control and agency and, you know, experience of liberation. She, you know, and margin and from marginalization to one that allows her, therefore, to see what God has done in other areas of society. And her praise, therefore, begins with, yes, my enemies. But this is a God who has control over not just my enemies, but the enemies of the world, of everyone. Yeah. [00:15:57] Speaker A: I mean, one thing we need to note for people is that the pastoral implication of reading and preaching from this story for the women who may be sitting in your congregation, for whom a child was much yearned for and never came. So. So how do we preach this passage in such a way that it is good news and it is hope and it's not a cruel and false promise for, you know, I mean, we're not. We can't be making. [00:16:36] Speaker B: I remember many years ago, very. I was still fairly young, did a Bible study on this text, and a couple came to me afterwards and said, you know, we have been praying, we have tried this, we have tried that, and it hasn't worked. And it was really a very difficult moment for me as a facilitator at that point, to try and see how best I could be pastorally present for them. And so, yes, as ministers, I think we need to be conscious of the fact that there may be some for whom who have been craving children but have not been able to have a child for various reasons. Yeah. [00:17:19] Speaker A: The last point I would perhaps make, too, is the position in the lectionary year where we hear this. So we began Pentecost with series of stories from kings. And now, you know, we're coming to the end of the lectionary year, and this woman is the pointing to the monarchy, mention of the anointed in the final line of the hymn. And then, Christianly speaking, we have Christ the King and then Advent with Mary's song to follow. So there's a. [00:17:52] Speaker B: Who uses the scene? [00:17:53] Speaker A: Who uses the same. Yeah, same song. So all similar things. So I think. I guess keeping that epic and large, that's a really important orienting of how we read the story. And it doesn't solve. Is the wrong word. It doesn't solve the pastoral reality that we were just speaking about. But it is an orientation to the text and to the big picture and to the hope of a messiah that this woman represents and enables. [00:18:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And the song is also different because there's a passion exuded in the song which is very similar, which is sort of different from the rather whispered prayer in chapter one. You know, that's. That's one of. That's. I think it's important to notice that the first prayer is whispered almost, you know, which conveyed or at least allowed her to. Well, people misunderstood her to be crazy. But here the song is sung with gusto and aloud. Yeah. [00:19:04] Speaker A: Defiance. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:19:07] Speaker A: No, that's significant. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah. So the varied parts of the song are quite revolutionary in terms of what God is capable of doing. And it's. You know, the theme running through it is what is weak will become strong. And so it's reversals. Yeah, it's all complete reversals that the song is praising God for. And so, in a way, the song is giving witness to the various liberative things that God is capable of doing. Okay. Yeah. So in a way, the reading exposes the sublime nature of praise, the power of words, and the subversive effects of deeds that, you know, God is capable. [00:20:11] Speaker A: Of and of those things in this woman. [00:20:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:20:16] Speaker A: Are you ready? To move on to the Gospel of Mark. Monica. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Sure. Okay. [00:20:22] Speaker A: We don't have to. If you've got final comments to make about Hannah. [00:20:26] Speaker B: No, I think. Well, I just want to say that, as I said earlier, the song doesn't address her particular condition or situation, but praises, as you said, the reverse and the fortunes of all. It upsets the status quo and offers protection to the vulnerable and members of society. And I think here we also need to take into cognizance the. The geographical location in which Hannah was placed. You know, where there were the enemies that Hannah is singing about are perhaps, you know, existential issues like hunger, you know, barrenness. Yes. And poverty. And so her overcoming her own condition of barrenness and perhaps poverty as well, she is able to use that sense of liberation and her faith to fight against the rest of the struggles that are confronting the people at that particular point in time. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Yeah, I was thinking about that and the liturgical power of the church community. So we know when someone dies in an untimely way who was a great source of energy and hope and action and how we can harness that as a community and keep that work going. The sort of. How the. How God works in one person in a particular way, and how can we make that a more communal, ongoing action. Is that making sense? There's something that she represents there, as you say. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, it's almost like this thing that used to. That happened a few years ago. What is that? That where you mobilize the crowd to dance. You know, one person starts. [00:22:22] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you call that? [00:22:24] Speaker B: Oops, I remember. But basically, here is one person who has experienced something and is trying to use that energy that she has discovered within herself to spread that energy to other, you know, other people in the community and to bolster their conviction that, yes, this phase will end, things will change, because this is our God, and this is what our God is capable of doing. And so. And so. But of course, here we cannot, as you have already said, you know, forget the fact that this is a song that is. That is provoking or encouraging people to think of monarchy. Yeah. And that the king. So the institution of monarchy. So in a way, she is. She's a prophetess. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Yes. [00:23:19] Speaker B: Yeah. She's a prophetess. She's a mother. Yes. But she's also a prophetess. Yeah. [00:23:28] Speaker A: Let's move to Mark, chapter 13, verses 1 to 8. So this passage is commonly known as the little apocalypse. I think some would disagree with that, but it's pretty apocalyptic. The few verses that we have before us yeah. [00:23:47] Speaker B: It's also called the Olivet Discourse. [00:23:49] Speaker A: Oh, right, yeah. [00:23:50] Speaker B: And that is because it is. It's a conversation that Jesus has with some of his disciples on Mount Mount Olives. [00:23:57] Speaker A: So that is super significant where the passage actually opens. He came out of the temple and he. Where he sits himself is kind of in a simonic fashion over judgment on the temple. In terms of context, we probably. I mean, I think it's important to recognise that in chapter 12, just prior with the widow's offering story, we have. Have Jesus wanting, at that point to reform the temple, change it. Like he's angry that a system exists, that someone of her need is required to do what she did. But here, this. I mean, we can't overemphasise the magnificence, the bejewelled, glittering. I mean, magnificence of this building, something we've never seen, maybe our biggest cathedral with the most lavish baroque. [00:24:51] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:24:52] Speaker A: Is what it might come close to. But no, this has to go. Is sort of. Is the shift in this passage. [00:25:00] Speaker B: I have a. You know, I feel a little sorry for the disciples who said, oh, look, Jesus, look how beautiful this building is. And Jesus just says so in a way, this unnamed disciple, I mean, he was all excited perhaps, and so on, and was very impressed with the magnificence of the temple. And here. And Jesus just cuts him short by saying, no, all of these. This will fall, you know, et cetera. And I think, again, we need to set this in the context in which Jesus was saying this. Scholars have suggested that, you know, the temple that was built by Herod here, you know, it was built not necessarily for the glory of God, but for the glory of Solomon or the glory of Solomon, and here, in this case, the glory of Herod. And so, in a way, the temple is symbolic of the empire. Yeah, you know, and so, I mean, I think this is true. We have a lot of people who come into positions of power who want to leave behind a la legacy which cannot be easily erased, and then build these huge monuments to their own. To their own name, so to speak, you know, not necessarily of the nation or the church or of God, you know, to God, but themselves, and so you have plaques, people want to be remembered. I've donated this, I've donated that. So you have here, you know, a case where Jesus is angry because the temple is no longer symbolic of God's presence or of the power of God, but more in terms of what these representatives of the empire are capable, which. [00:26:54] Speaker A: Underscores the significance of the Mount of Olives being the site, because in the Ezekiel tradition, that's the site of Messianic intervention. It goes along and pointing to a far greater reality. And we must also emphasize, I think, too, that the loss of this temple, in whatever form, is a cataclysmic event for the Jewish community. It's the loss not just of a place of worship, but of order, ritual, order, home, absolutely everything. And so for him to be suggesting that is apocalyptic. And we must also say apocalyptic, remind people it's about uncovering and revelation, not about destruction. [00:27:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:39] Speaker A: Like they are sort of. I think it can get confused. Confusing. It's. It's an important. It's about uncovering or revealing. It's not the catastrophic turning over of everything as in the end of the world. [00:27:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, I mean, in that. In that moment, Jesus. Jesus was definitely angry, as you have already said in chapter 12. He was angry and he continues to be angry, because this monument here is not a testament to who God is or the power of God, as I've already said, but to the power of the person who's built it. And I think we have enough evidence in our histories where leaders have built, you know, cathedrals and churches and palaces for themselves. Yeah. [00:28:31] Speaker A: I mean, I think we, especially in our world now, where war is a constant, the rumours of wars, this is an evocative passage that is ever true now is when it was written. Yeah. And I think in our context, when we're so polarised and big important matters become party politics like climate or. I don't know, there's something that speaks to us now in this passage about the urgency, about the suffering, about the fact that we cannot seem to sort ourselves out and we wait in yearning for the revelation of the glory of God. And here they sort of ask, well, what does that look like? Like, when's this going to happen? Or. And we don't get that. We get sort of a reiteration about the birth pangs coming. But later in, just after this, in chapter 13, the disciples find, well, the sign of it is us. So when we believers bear witness to this glory, we will be persecuted and hated because of it. So I don't know. I'm not leading to anywhere. Very good news there. But that is part of the reality of what they're looking at, the suffering, the way of the cross that is about to be unfolded. [00:29:54] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think that's good news as well. To be aware of what is to be, you know, what is coming to keep yourself in the Knowledge of the fact that things are not going to be as they are, that things will change. You know, good a lot for bad, perhaps. And I think that is the good news, where you are equipping your own audience with being able to read the. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Signs and be a sign. I mean, I think they are being a sign. But also where Marx put this story is just before the passion where the cruelty and the destruction of the world is hung, you know, is the cross, but that God does not leave it there and overcomes even that to a new, a radical, an end to what it is we know, and the beginning of a new thing, the kingdom. [00:30:47] Speaker B: Yeah. I think a significant verse for me is in chapter of this. In this chapter is verse five, because Jesus says, be careful of those who might lead you astray. [00:31:02] Speaker A: Yeah, well, people in wars now saying that I am the one or we represent the one. [00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, you know, I mean, American politics, politics everywhere, where leaders come into positions of power and start leading people astray, you know, leading people into avenues that meet their own agenda, you know, the leader's agenda, so to speak. And what I've learned through my reading on this particular chapter is that this word lead astray in. In Greek, apparently occurs only four times in Mark. And including the two usages here in this. In this particular chapter. But you will find it used in chapter 12 that we have that you mentioned when Jesus discusses, you know, issues of resurrection and, you know, with a group of Sadducees. So. So in a way, this leading astray is also maybe a reference to the Sadducees who did not believe in resurrection, who do not, in his mind, did not know scripture or the power of God. And so this again, for me, can be linked with Hannah's song about. About. About the power of God that people. So Hannah is reminding people of who God is and what God is capable of doing. And here Jesus is saying, be careful of those who. Who do not acknowledge the power of God, but think of their own power. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:32:48] Speaker A: Well, that's probably a good spot to close our discussion today. Thank you, Monica. [00:32:53] Speaker B: Okay. [00:32:57] Speaker A: By the well is brought to you Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.