C215 Lent 3

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Howard Wallace. [00:00:18] Speaker A: And I'm Robyn Whittaker. And the readings we're going to Discuss for the third Sunday of Lent are Isaiah 55, 1:9, Psalm 63, 1:8 and Luke chapter 13, verses 1 to 9. So, Howard, let's begin with Isaiah. Where are we? What do we need to know to kind of. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Well, we need to give a little bit of context because we're jumping around in Old Testament readings at the moment. [00:00:47] Speaker A: We are, we're all over the place in the lectionary. [00:00:50] Speaker B: This is from a portion of Isaiah which we call second Isaiah. In fact, it's the last chapter in that section of the book from chapters 40 to 55. And in terms of the history of Israel, it's said at a time around about 545 or 540, 550 BCE. So it's about 40 to 50 odd years after the time when many of the people of Jerusalem were taken into exile. At least the hierarchy were. [00:01:24] Speaker A: Yep. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Now, Second Isaiah seems to be speaking within that context of exile and he is bringing a word of hope to those people. He sees the possibility that exile will finish soon. And what he's really seeing, of course, is the fact that the Persians are arising on the or coming onto the political world with force. And the Babylonians will probably have to give way to the Persians. And he knows that the Persians are much more amenable to people returning to their homes and conducting their lives in a way that's traditional context, as long as they remain subservient to the Persians. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Of course, which is what happens in the narrative in the Bible. [00:02:08] Speaker B: This is the last passage in second Isaiah. It's a wonderful passage with a whole lot of really quite beautiful, I think, images and metaphors around the themes of drinking and eating and feasting as a way of celebrating. And all this relates to the word of God which the prophet brings. The passage itself reflects the very first passage in Second Isaiah, which was chapter 40, verses 1 to 11. And it repeats the themes of human frailty especially, and of the. The reliability of the word of God. [00:02:45] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:46] Speaker B: So we have this sort of series of wonderful images, maybe sort of picking up on the image of a water cellar in Jerusalem going around if you're there today. Well, if you were there today, you might see people selling tea and other things in a similar sort of fashion. So we've got these things and this water, this drink is offered to the people who are thirsty. They're looking for hope, actually, is what's implied. And the. It's not just water that's being offered, it's actually milk and wine. Really quite rich. [00:03:26] Speaker A: Yeah. These are luxurious items for people who have definitely left that. [00:03:31] Speaker B: And they're being offered at no cost. So they are free. [00:03:35] Speaker A: Yeah, the economy here, you know, go buy without silver. Well, you're not buying if it's not silver. [00:03:41] Speaker B: You're. You're getting it for free. And of course, the whole idea of the drink is a metaphor for the word of God which comes to the people. And for ultimately that word of deliverance, there is need within this context for a response from the people, because in verse six, we're told that they are still to seek God, that is, and call upon God, forsake whatever they've been doing or suffering in the past and return. So there are elements of, well, what we might call repentance, although it's not quite as strong as we sometimes understand that word. It asks the question of how is this free, I think, if it's offered and yet there is need for a response. And I think we see here this sort of notion of the return of the people to God is not something that is a condition upon which God moves towards them. In other words, it's not the condition upon which God will then freely deliver them, but it's rather part of the gift itself, the gift of freedom and deliverance calls in part for their response, which is one of repentance and returning. And all this is stressed in verses six and seven, especially where they're to seek the Lord. But this is the way of the Lord that is stressed, this notion of free deliverance for this people who've suffered their punishment from what has been before. [00:05:21] Speaker A: I was really struck in verse 7, this language of let them return and have mercy, and then we've got this, that he will abundantly pardon. It's not just pardon, like many of the other images in the passage. It is of one of, you know, abundance and. And, you know, luxury. There's something overflowing about it, I guess. [00:05:43] Speaker B: And it's a bit like. Reminds me of the parable of the prodigal Son, which is going to come up, I think, the week after. Yeah, this one where the Father is waiting for the Son. [00:05:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:05:55] Speaker B: He's not just sort of. [00:05:56] Speaker A: And again and again there's feasting. [00:05:58] Speaker B: Oh yes, and feasting. But the other thing interesting to note is the reading this week as it's set down in the lectionary ends on verses 8 and 9 with a wonderful chiasm. A sort of a reflective thing with words. My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord. For as high as the heavens above the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. So we've got this sort of reflection thing, this a B, B. A sort of thing going with a stress in the middle of heavens being higher than the earth. This is God's sort of way higher than that of humans. [00:06:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:47] Speaker B: Their understanding. [00:06:49] Speaker A: Yes. So what. And of course, if we kept reading to verse 11, which we should. Which we probably should, particularly if you're going to preach this passage, we get more clearly what you were talking about earlier, Howard, that. That this is about the Word. [00:07:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:04] Speaker A: The word of the God of the Lord that nourishes. Yep. [00:07:07] Speaker B: Chapter 40 in that. Because then we've got. We go back to rain while we're back in water, rain and snow coming down. And it replenishes the earth where the grain grows and the grain is made into bread which feeds the people. So the whole thing sort of builds on this sort of image of nourishment and growth in that context. And this is all the word of the Lord within the. Within the people. [00:07:32] Speaker A: People. Yep. And. And I mean, we sort of skipped over it, but in verse three, that reaffirmation of the everlasting covenant with David. So you might. [00:07:43] Speaker B: Well, I don't make too much of it because I don't think it's sort of made too much of here, but harking Back to. To 2 Samuel, chapter 7 and that eternal covenant that was given to David and his household. [00:07:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:07:55] Speaker B: So it's picking up on that image and as this sort of sense in which God is reliable. [00:08:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. [00:08:02] Speaker B: All through this. Unlike some people in the world today. [00:08:06] Speaker A: That's right. I'm wondering about. You know, one of the things I've been struck again by this year is, you know, how reading certain scriptural passages in a season like Lent shapes the way we read them. And so when I first started reading this, I was struck by. We've got all these images of food and wine and feasting, and we're in the season of Lent, Lent, where many people are fasting. And if you're Islamic, you're probably not listening to this podcast, but it's Ramadan, so there's also fasting. And my Anglican husband does like to remind me that Sundays, even in Lent, are always feast days. So there is always that element of feasting and celebration for what God has done, even in seasons of penitence and fasting. But yeah, I'm just wondering how that changes how we read some of these images and perhaps the sort of spiritual or the symbolic significance here of it's feasting, but ultimately feasting on God's Word and God's presence. [00:09:08] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And I think it's an invitation not to see Lent as a time of feeling down and that sense of constantly, but it's actually invitation to accept well, what in this chapter is described as the free gift of God. And part of that gift is. Is an acknowledgement of who we are and the fact that our thoughts are less than God's thoughts and receiving sort of a turning towards God as a part of the gift that is given to us. The possibility is there for us. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Yes. So this language, you know, and the possibility of possibility, because in verse seven, you know, let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. [00:09:54] Speaker B: This. [00:09:54] Speaker A: This is possible. So, yeah, like you say, Lent is not a time for just feeling terrible about how awful we are or how many things we get wrong or whatever. It is always that reminder that good news, that transformation is possible. [00:10:10] Speaker B: There's a sense of possibility of joy. [00:10:12] Speaker A: Yes, yeah, yeah. [00:10:14] Speaker B: In the offering, which. Which makes it a little bit parallel to Advent too. [00:10:18] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:18] Speaker B: There's an anticipation of. Of something coming, which is really wonderful. [00:10:24] Speaker A: And we're going to see that frame differently with the language of fruit in the New Testament. But before we go there, shall we turn to the Psalm? [00:10:32] Speaker B: Yes. [00:10:37] Speaker A: So Psalm 63, which is introduced. I'd never know what to make of these headings, but a Psalm of David when he was in the wilderness of Judah. So again, a kind of potentially desert, kind of far from home setting. [00:10:53] Speaker B: And it starts off with thirst and thirst and seeking. Yeah, again. And so we can sort of quite see quite obviously why it's paired with Isaiah 55 in this sort of context. There's a mixture of metaphors going on through here about thirst and about joy and about feasting and even later on we get into the fat, the richest of food. Further on in that context, the first eight verses, which are the ones that are set in the lectionary, and I think we need to think about more of the Psalm too. But we'll come back to that. Ones that are fairly comforting and seem to be fairly positive sort of expression by the psalmist in that context. But you sort of sense beneath the surface that there may be some Difficulty in this context. It's not just all sort of having been rescued or something like that expression of. Of thankfulness. And I think that's made clear, at least to me, any rate, in verse three, because I think there's a translation issue there that we need to watch. The NRSV says in verse three, so I have looked upon you in the sanctuary, beholding your power and glory. So there's a. An understanding there of the psalmist is looking back on times when he's called upon God or she's called upon God within the sanctuary, and they've had a sort of sense of God's presence and glory in that context. But the words so I have looked upon you could also be translated, oh, that I might look upon you. And I think there's some interesting ambiguity going on there. So it could be about present need as well as expressions of thankfulness for past responses by God to whatever the need of the psalmist has been. [00:13:01] Speaker A: And can I just note for our listeners, Howard's saying verse three because it's verse three in the Hebrew. It's verse two in your NRSV Bible or whatever. That's okay, just in case people are very confused. But I agree with you. I think, again, we've got strong images here, but this sense of I seek you, my soul thirsts, my flesh faints in this dry land. And I like that subtle translation shift that you're suggesting better, this idea that it's a possibility. I will look. It's not quite resolved yet, because there's very definitely a sense of something being sought, that the thirst, the dryness is there. [00:13:43] Speaker B: And I think. I mean, this will come in maybe in our discussion of Luke 13 too, but I think there's something that is Christological about this. I mean, we cannot separate resurrection from crucifixion. [00:13:59] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:00] Speaker B: And I think there's a similar thing here that we don't sort of end up thanking God just at the time to when we're released from difficulty. But the way of God is actually is one that penetrates all parts of our life difficult and the joyous. [00:14:16] Speaker A: I find the shift into the English verse 3, 4, 5 here Interesting, Howard. So I think my question to you as a Hebrew Bible scholar is what? You know, we've got the sense of looking and maybe not yet finding, and then this almost, you know, quite strong declaration of praise, but your love is better than life. I'll bless you. I lift up my hands to you. So even in the sense, even in the midst of what seems like a Kind of a seeking that could have a. A hard edge to it. We have this outburst of praise, which of course does happen in the Psalms. Yes, it does. Is there anything we'd make of that? Or how do we read this sort of two things going on at once? [00:15:02] Speaker B: Well, it's a little bit of what I was trying to say before. I think. I think we don't separate the thankfulness and the wonder of God's love from the difficulties that we encounter. And in fact, God is there right within the difficulties, as well as within the times of joy and feasting, which I love. I mean, it's a nice translation in RSV with a rich feast in verse five, but it's talking about fat, the fat things of the richest of food. So. So there's something that's not normally available, again, compared to Isaiah 55, something not normally available to people, but it's the richest of things that. [00:15:50] Speaker A: Yeah, again, a luxury that. To have the fat. [00:15:52] Speaker B: And the last thing to say, I think, is that we ignore verses 9 to 11 in the lectionary. But that's a pity in a way. Of course we're ignoring it because it doesn't sound nice that we talk about the destruction of various people. But I don't think we need to read it as the. As the psalmist changing their tack in this thing and turning into something cruel. It's about the psalmist desiring that evil in the world be overcome. I think that is still a positive thing to say. And the end result of that overcoming is the praise of God in that context. So I think we ought not to be afraid of the thoughts that we might have about evil needing to be overcome, nor expressing them. No world. [00:16:49] Speaker A: And that last line, the mouths of liars will be stopped. I mean, we're full of lies these days. Still relevant today, folks. [00:16:58] Speaker B: Very much. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. So, yeah, to hold that all together again, the lectionary sometimes drives me a bit nutty, the way it just chops off a few verses. We don't get the whole picture. [00:17:08] Speaker B: But yes, it tries to sanitize things at times. [00:17:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:17:11] Speaker B: And Scripture won't be sanitized all the time. [00:17:13] Speaker A: No. Because it's dealing with real, real human emotion and the complexity of life. And this is part of that, I think. [00:17:21] Speaker B: Yep. [00:17:25] Speaker A: Did you know you could join our Facebook group by the well for extra content and discussion. So we're here in Luke chapter 13, and we're going to get a bit of Luke 13. You. We're going a bit back and forward in the lectionary at the moment. But this, today's passage has sort of two sayings with a clear theme of repentance and then a parable. And one of the first things to say is, is Luke's Gospel kind of does this where we often get a saying or a dialogue, some sort of debate between Jesus and, you know, someone else followed by a parable. And I think we are supposed to read them together. The parable in some ways is part of the answer to the previous discussion. So we're going to unpack some of this in the passage just before. Again, Jesus has been talking with opponents about judgment and reading signs of the times. So we are in this section of, of Luke that is reflecting on these sort of hard things, if you like. So, yeah, one of the things I think we might note immediately, we've got, we've got some who come and tell him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate mingled with their sacrifices. Now we don't know who this some are, they're unnamed, we don't know what their agenda is. But the word Galileans I think is quite important because of course, Jesus is from Galilee. So it's possible that having a dig at him. It's possible they're having a dig at him. It's possible he knows this people. If this is based on a historically true story, we just don't know. But it is like close to home, I guess I want to say. And, and this idea of Pilate mingling their blood with sacrifices, we can skip over this. But of course sacrifices are animal sacrifices. And the inference here is that Pilate has not only executed these people, or we assume that, but taken their blood. It's like a double degrading of their body. He's taken their blood and mixed it with the animal sacrifices which would have been made to other gods, pagan gods, the gods of the Roman Empire. So it is the ultimate sort of humiliation, if you like. And so the question posed is, are these worst sinners? You know, you know, Jesus says to them, and basically he's very clearly saying, no, these people haven't suffered this awful death and sort of almost degradation post death because they are sinners. So I think Jesus answer and he'll repeat this again with the second example of the people killed by the tower. No. [00:20:28] Speaker B: Is there another level in that first little story? [00:20:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:32] Speaker B: About authority and why people in authority act and the way they act and whether it's divinely blessed in a sense. [00:20:43] Speaker A: Can you say more about what you're. [00:20:45] Speaker B: Well, I think it's quite Common to think, especially, say, within. If we find ourselves just within early Israelite religion, you know, the king acts as God's representative agent. Yeah. So is there an argument here that. That those in authority sort of wouldn't seem to act in a godly way, but then it might be questioned in what, Jesus's response to it. [00:21:14] Speaker A: Yes, I think there are political layers and. Yes. That this is not either divinely sanctioned or just or in any of those. Yeah, yeah. No, I think that's a fair point because there's. The second example is a bit different. It is more of a tragic accident. Right. A tower that falls. So we're dealing with two different but typical scenarios. Someone killed by power, those with power, and. And others killed by a kind of. [00:21:41] Speaker B: An accident, both of which could be seen as God's. Sort of. [00:21:46] Speaker A: God's. Yeah, that could be. Yes. Yep. But I think Jesus really pushes away that possibility. So he's. No, I tell you. And he does call for repentance, I think is doing some double work of these are not punishments for sin. So he wants to separate the idea that if you're sinful, you'll suffer or die, and yet at the same time, he turns it around on them and says, but you will all die and you must repent, otherwise you'll kind of perish as they did. So it's a slightly confusing answer, but I think he's trying to say it's not yours to speculate about why something happened to someone else and, you know, spend time wondering about their own sinfulness or what they secretly did, but it is your responsibility to think about yourself. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yes, yes. [00:22:39] Speaker A: So it's the. Don't judge others, but, you know, back on them. Yeah, exactly. Do you have any thoughts about that before we move on to the parable? [00:22:47] Speaker B: That's what I would have thought. [00:22:51] Speaker A: So what about the parable? Howard? [00:22:52] Speaker B: What about the parable? Well, I think. I think here we go back to Isaiah 55 in a nice sort of collection because then he wants to qualify. I mean, we could sort of see that Jesus is responding negatively to the two stories, but then, as you sort of say, using them as an illustration, if you like, that, you know, you watch out for yourself and what you do. But then he comes back with an element of God's grace. And in the story of the fig tree, which is greatly changed from its existence in Mark, I guess. [00:23:26] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah. This. This version, these nine verses really are only found in Luke in. In the way they are. So this is a very Lucan marquee. [00:23:37] Speaker B: The story well, an Akin story crops up about a fig tree in relation to his temple once he's got into Jerusalem. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, there's a difference. So fig trees do pop up, but we need to be careful not to conflate them, I think. Yep. Yeah, there's. I mean, the other thing I'd say always with parables is we need to avoid trying to read them allegorically, as if we can work out, you know, who's the man who planted the tree, who's the gardener. You know, some. If you go back in tradition, some people have said, well, the planter is God and the gardener's Jesus. Well, this is problematic. It makes. Makes, yes, God the creator, but the gardener's the nice guy and God's the judge. And this. It's not consistent with the way Jesus is actually depicted in Luke, who is one who. Who will judge and who calls for repentance. So for me, one way to enter these sort of parable stories is to think about who we might identify with or to imagine ourself in the story. So, you know, you know, being a bit playful here, if you're a preacher, but, you know, are we the fig tree where we feel like our lives are not bearing fruit, in which case perhaps the Lenten reflection is, what do I need to be changing? You know, what nourishment do I need? Manure here is the very clear word. But you know, what. What would I need for my life to feel fruitful and living according to God's purpose? For me, we might contemplate ourselves as the gardener. So if we look on others who are not thriving or communities, this is not just individual, but, you know, what do we need to do for our neighbor to thrive, to nurture them, to actually embody God's grace towards them? And I think we could expand that out to whole communities. We. We often want to judge. You know, we lock up children in this country who commit crimes. We have a punitive justice system. Just taking this to a very big issue. But what would we need to do as a community to actually embody this kind of grace and say if we actually created a culture around them where they could thrive, you know, for a time. [00:25:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:25:55] Speaker A: What would that opportunity look like? [00:25:57] Speaker B: I don't know whether I've approached the parables and this one particular in a slightly different way, but my thinking is to, first of all, what's the parable saying within itself? You know, just given its own context? And what it's trying to say is there's a level of patience that One could express in this context then to sort of jump into our context rather than trying to immediately sort of jump across the centuries. [00:26:25] Speaker A: Yep. [00:26:25] Speaker B: But either way is helpful, I think. [00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Yes. And it's not to say you don't do that first work. And I think in the logic of. Of this section of Luke, you know, it is very clearly connected to what goes before, about repentance is needed if you're not. If you're not bearing fruit. So there's a hard word here. If you're not bearing a fruit like the fig tree, you will be judged. [00:26:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:26:53] Speaker A: But also this moment of grace, that there will be a moment of grace for growth. [00:26:58] Speaker B: And I think if I was preaching on this, I'd probably start with Luke. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:27:02] Speaker B: And work my way through and then bounce off the fig tree parable into Isaiah and talk more about that. The wonder of the gift that's given there and the freedom of it. [00:27:14] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:15] Speaker B: And the interplay of. Of response and repentance with the gift of. Of life that's offered. [00:27:23] Speaker A: Yes. Because this is all ultimately about life, right? It is about what we. Yeah. Yes. I think I am preaching this week and I am still undecided what I'm going to preach on, but increasingly drawn to the Luke passage, but also the psalm. I think there's some themes in the psalm and in Isaiah actually about, you know, this good news that. That turning things around, turning back to God. When we seek God, that transformation is entirely possible. [00:27:55] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:57] Speaker A: But there is this edge of warning that repentance, some intention and work on our part is. I don't mean work as in we work towards salvation, but intention in turning towards God is needed. [00:28:09] Speaker B: But all of that is a gift given by God to us. [00:28:12] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. Thanks, Howard. By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.