C242 Pentecost 17

[00:00:05] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. Hello, I'm Reverend Sandy Bodeen. [00:00:20] Speaker B: And I'm Reverend Brendan Byrne. [00:00:22] Speaker A: And we're here to talk about Pentecost Week 17. They are a very cheery set of readings this week. The. The first one is from Lamentations 1:1 16, the second to Timothy 1:1 14, and finally the gospel reading from Luke 17, 5, 10. They're a very happy, cheery bunch of readings. Brendan, do you want to kick us off with Lamentations 11 16? [00:00:52] Speaker B: Sure. The tradition ascribes the authorship of Lamentations to the prophet Jeremiah, who, according to the Tradition, went into exile into Egypt after the fall of Jerusalem to Babylon. And it was in Egypt, according to the tradition, that he composed this text we now know as Lamentations. And it is a visceral and heartfelt expression of grief from the very depth of what it means to be human at both the personal level and also the circumstances that attend the situation of the people of Judah after the fall of Jerusalem. [00:01:45] Speaker A: So the city, who is speaking in the voice of a woman, is the main character in this text. The she character is the city, the people of God. [00:01:56] Speaker B: That's right. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Who have been. Whose city has been destroyed. And so you get this anthropomorphic cry in the night from the city who is weeping bitterly with tears on her cheek with no one left to comfort her. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And Jeremiah, the author of this text, is using the poetic language, the anthropomorphic language of personifying Jerusalem as a princess who is from who, once having occupied a position of splendor and grace, has fallen into this position where they have been betrayed, where they are friendless, where they count for absolutely nothing in the world. So the lament gives voice to that crushing sense of abandonment. [00:02:52] Speaker A: So this might be something that people in our congregations have experienced personally, couldn't it? Or it might be something that's happening in the world around us today in terms of. Well, I mean, it's strikingly obvious examples of places that have been destroyed that might be feeling this way and might need to hear the word of grace from God. [00:03:14] Speaker B: Oh, absolutely. But the poetic language of abandonment that the author uses also acknowledges that that abandonment arrives not because God has abandoned the people, but because the people have abandoned God. [00:03:34] Speaker A: Okay. [00:03:35] Speaker B: And I mean, it's there in verse five. The. The suffering that comes in the wake of Judah's wrongdoing is a consequence of their turning away from God, from their turning away from covenant, from relationship with God. And the female voice of abandonment, of betrayal, is also the voice, as it were, of God saying to the people of Judah who are now in exile, who have been taken away from Jerusalem, saying to them, you have left me. You have forsaken me. This is why this dreadful thing has happened. [00:04:15] Speaker A: So this is the ongoing story of Israel and God that repeats itself over and over and over in the scriptures, isn't it? [00:04:23] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. And time and again, God has been faithful to covenant and has called the people back into relationship, particularly through the prophetic ministries. And the people have responded at different times. But their abandonment of God has now become so complete and has become so alienated that it ultimately requires the conquest by the Babylonian empire for them to. [00:04:57] Speaker A: Realize that things are so bad they need to turn back to God. [00:05:00] Speaker B: Exactly. The consequences of their own conduct has become so fearful that they now have to face up to that reality. [00:05:11] Speaker A: Her foes have become the masters. Her enemies prosper because the Lord has made her suffer for the multitude of her transgressions. Her children have gone away captives before the foe. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Exactly, the multitude of her transgressions. So it's the people who have abandoned God, not vice versa. [00:05:31] Speaker A: What do we do with this in worship, Brendan? [00:05:34] Speaker B: I think we need to reflect on it today as a church, about all the various laments and complaints that we have as a church, that, you know, society is against us, that secularism mocks and denigrates religious belief, that, you know, allegedly young people are not interested in church and spirituality, and instead of finding other people and causes to blame for the ills of the church, perhaps the cause is closer to home, and we ourselves are not living covenantly with God. And I don't mean that in a kind of puritanical, legalistic, go back to Bible basics sense. I mean, in the sense of all the ways in which we have made church replicate the powers and provinces and empires of the earth, and we see that current order beginning to fall apart and collapse under its own weight. Now, can we be truly surprised that perhaps the same is happening to the church and we are standing under God's judgment? [00:06:49] Speaker A: So you're saying that if we, the church, are this woman in this story, then we're being called to repentance and to turn back to God? [00:06:59] Speaker B: Exactly. And in the same way that the world is being called again and again and again to do something about climate change, for example, before it's too late, then I think the church is being called to return to being church that embodies and images the kingdom of God and the gospel rather than the presumptions and assumptions of our surrounding culture. [00:07:30] Speaker A: I'm wondering what one might do in a congregation that had children and families in it. How would you what would you do with this reading? Do you have any thoughts on that? Would you like to ask me, since that's kind of my thing? [00:07:42] Speaker B: Well, that is your bag. I mean, but, but, you know, I think it is it could be a helpful way of frankly asking kids, you know, what are the things that make them sad? What are the things that make them unhappy? And, you know, can we explore that safely? [00:08:01] Speaker A: So if you have a look at the intergen resources@intergen.org au you will find a couple of very good resources written by Chris Barra that invite us into different ways of praying based on this reading from Lamentations. And I invite you to have a look at those if you're looking for a way that you can engage and invite young people and their parents and their adults to engage together with this text. So we're going to move on to 2 Timothy 1, 1 14. So we've got a reading that purports to be by Paul, but most scholars these days don't think it's actually written by Paul, but using that kind of the strength of the name of Paul to be responding. One of the things I like about the start of it, Brendan, is the way it reminds Timothy about his mother and his grandmother, a faith that lived first in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and now, I'm sure, lives in you. You know, you know, I'm a genealogist that it's one of my favorite things. I love the fact that he's reminding Timothy where he comes from, where his faith comes from. What did you make of this reading? [00:09:25] Speaker B: Well, that certainly an aspect that struck me as most interesting right at the start, that he, as it were, traces Timothy's faith inheritance through the matri linear line. And so that gives us pause for thought about, you know, how that is speaking into and contrary to the patriarchal culture of the times, but also some of the assumptions that are made about Paul's own attitudes toward women and patriarchy and so forth. [00:09:59] Speaker A: And of course, if you do a bit of a study across the Pauline letters or the ones that aren't really by Paul, you'll discover that there's actually a lot of women in a lot of the places that Paul writes to that are responsible for churches and are responsible for people's faith, like Lois And Eunice. [00:10:16] Speaker B: That's right. And if we assume that this was perhaps written by a disciple of Paul using his name and authority, then I think it follows that that person knew that Paul would not object. [00:10:29] Speaker A: Yes. [00:10:30] Speaker B: You know, to citing Timothy's faith inheritance through the female line. [00:10:37] Speaker A: So Paul's not in great straits as he starts to write this. Or rather the writer is claiming that Paul is in prison. Do not be ashamed then of the testimony of our Lord or of me, his prisoner, but join me in the suffering for the gospel and the power of God who saved us. Etc. Etc. Paul's not setting himself up as the great hero here is in a lot of trouble. [00:11:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that's right. And this is a time of conflict, both in terms of the early Christian community as it's moving away from and separating from the wider Jewish community, but also within the Christian community, that conflict between Jewish and Gentile Christians around obedience to the law. And I think it's interesting that in verse three, Paul talks of what, worshiping God with a clear conscience, as my ancestors did, which seems to touch on that conflict, that moment, that period where the relationship is contested and difficult. And so Paul is making a clear statement that his faith and his worship of God is in accord with that of his ancestors. [00:11:55] Speaker A: That's right. So. So although he's seen as the one who's on the side of the Gentiles and inviting the Gentiles in all the time, yet he's claiming and reminding them of his heritage. Just as he's reminding Timothy of Timothy's heritage. [00:12:09] Speaker B: Exactly. So. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Excellent. So then, Then he goes on to talk about where his. I'm gonna say, where his power comes from, where he receives the ability to do things from. And it's not really from Paul's own self, is it? [00:12:25] Speaker B: No. And the passages that follow his introduction are a reminder to us all that the calling into faith is not a confirmation of our sanctity or the bestowing upon us of some kind of providential status. It comes to us through the unconditional love and the absolute sovereignty of God, who invites us into the relationship of faith. And what that invitation requires is a response. And so it is through the power of the invitation into faith, the invitation into relationship, that Paul is able to act and be as he is. [00:13:09] Speaker A: So I'm hearing some echoes here to what we were just saying about Lamentation. We were talking about she Israel having a relationship with God and having turned her back on that relationship. And now we're talking about Paul saying, well, in fact, everything. Everything I can do is through my faith, which is about my relationship with God. [00:13:28] Speaker B: And in. In a way, Paul is turning his back, but on a. On an old construction of the relationship and entering into this new expression of the same relationship that continues the relationship with God that his ancestors has. But it now comes to humankind, the whole of humanity, through the person of Christ. [00:13:52] Speaker A: So how does his relationship change then? What's different about it? [00:13:57] Speaker B: Well. Well, it's no longer the old relationship bounded by the law. The law. I mean, Paul still obeys the law. In fact, he boasts about his obedience to the law, but the law is no longer the. The determining juncture. Christ is. [00:14:22] Speaker A: So what would you do with this? Would you preach on this text? Brendan? [00:14:25] Speaker B: I would, but I think that it needs to be approached from the standpoint of reminding us that who we are as people of faith, as individuals of faith, as communities of faith, is a calling to proclaim the gospel. It is a calling to model the kingdom. It is not a elevation of us to some kind of elect status. [00:15:01] Speaker A: So it's not about power. [00:15:02] Speaker B: It's not about power. It's about our response, individually and collectively, to the invitation into relationship which then calls upon us to articulate what that means to the world. And so we are, each of us, recipients of a legacy that unfolds across time, across cultures beyond borders, as Paul describes in both in terms of himself and in terms of Timothy. We are inheritors of that legacy, and we have a duty to proclaim it and to pass it on. [00:15:43] Speaker A: And so the only, the only way we can act is actually in the strength of God. So even as a. As a prisoner, all he can do is proclaim Christ. [00:15:51] Speaker B: Indeed, we are never alone because we are always part of that cloud of witness, irrespective of what our individual particular circumstances might be. [00:16:01] Speaker A: Thank you. Now, I wonder what Luke is going to have to say to us about faith. So we've come to our last reading, Brendan. Luke 17, 5, 10. Now, this is a bit of a tricky passage, and I reckon it's a bit like last week's reading. You could get yourself stuck on a few gorse bushes, metaphorical gauze bushes, in this reading. So you've got this bit about the apostles begging Jesus to increase their faith, which comes from a suggestion that in the previous part that they might be the cause of the stumbling of the children. So he says, well, you know, lord, increase. They say, lord, increase our faith so that we can do the right thing. And the Lord replies, if you had the faith of a mustard seed, you could say, to this mulberry tree be uprooted and planted in the sea, and it would obey you. So even the smallest amount of faith is able to cause the seemingly impossible to happen because it's impossible for a mulberry tree, or in fact any tree to lift itself up and plant itself in the sea. [00:17:14] Speaker B: Look, in some respects I regard this passage as the least interesting of all the readings this week. But I read it as a rebuke to the idea that faith is some kind of demonstrably measurable standard so that, you know, someone can say I have more faith than you, in the same way that someone might say I have more money than you, or I have a bigger house than you, or I have a newer car than you. Faith is. It doesn't require a qualifying word. It faith just is. And when the disciples say to Jesus, increase our faith, what they are really saying is make us more demonstrably holy or pious or pure or sanctified. And in effect they are saying, well, they don't actually have faith to begin with. [00:18:14] Speaker A: So this is being spoken into a world where there are very definite hierarchies, isn't it? So he then goes on to talk about, you know, being a servant and being a master. This is the kind of world where saying such as women obey your husbands or slaves obey your masters, children obey your parents are really normal kinds of statements, isn't it? And so it's interesting, I think, that Jesus kind of picks this language up. But we don't expect to hear Jesus talk about, you know, getting, getting the servants and the slaves to do the right thing for our 21st century is. That sounds uncomfortable, but I suspect for a first century, well off person, well, of course one would expect one slave to do those things for, for one. Is that true? [00:19:02] Speaker B: Yeah, it is. And, but, but I think that, that if we look at this reading as a rebuke to that idea that faith is some kind of demonstrable thing that, you know, or measure or quantity, that you can say that you have more of. This actually helps us approach the second half of this reading, which as you point out is uncomfortable to 21st century is Jesus is simple. By using that analogy of the slave who comes in from the fields, Jesus is simply again, and this is where the thematic continuity occurs. Jesus is simply saying that the invitation into faith isn't some kind of promotion or special recognition that provides the basis for boastful comparisons with others, or more appropriately or more relevantly, judgmental comparisons with others. It is its own thing that requires you to do nothing more than respond, you know, and, and so as the, the servant comes in from the fields and then prepares the meal, simply because that is what is required of the servant, then the invitation into faith doesn't place us in the position of a master via, via servant. It in fact requires us just to respond. And so there's nothing special or elevated about us or our status if we do simply what the faith call to faith requires us. [00:20:40] Speaker A: And Bill Loader reminds us that in fact all of the listeners are actually the servants of the master, as in God. So in fact we're all in that. All of us, no matter what our status is, are in that lower category to God. We respond. We respond to God who is the one who, through whom all actions take place. And that, that's a reminder of what Paul was just saying, really, isn't it too. [00:21:05] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. And it is a critical reminder. And again, in the 21st century, in our culture, cultural myth of autonomous individuality, we don't like to accept or grasp the idea that we are not God and God is qualitatively different from us. [00:21:28] Speaker A: It's also suggesting that. I'm thinking of a phrase that you say quite often, actually, Brenda, it's not all about me. Like, we like to receive adulation and praise and congratulation for even the smallest thing. We do as though we did it all in our own power and aren't we wonderful? But actually what, what he's saying here is that you're just doing what, what you. What was expected of you. Exactly, yeah. So it's a very interesting response, I think, from Jesus. What do we, what do we make of this as Christians? What's, what are we being asked to think about? How are we being asked to think about our faith? [00:22:06] Speaker B: Well, I think, I think that this is a very humbling collection of readings that requires us to engage in self reflection, to engage in honest assessment of the ways in which we have failed to be church, in the ways in which perhaps we have simply become another empire among all the world's empires. And the ways in which we somehow expect the world to respond to us with plaudits and approval simply by the fact that we're people of faith. And our complaint when the world doesn't do that is I think, indicative of an underlying expectation which this reading from Luke particularly is saying should not be there. [00:22:57] Speaker A: And I think in addition to that, Bill Loader talks about the fact that this calls us to have the faith, to have the bravery, to stand up for places where people are being treated with indignity. And where they're being, where the poor are being exploited, where war is breaking out because people are behaving badly. And that, and in fact the faith of a mustard seed is to be the small one who stands up and says, actually this is not okay. Which, you know, is a very hard and scary thing to do. [00:23:30] Speaker B: Yes. Because God's solidarity with us demands our solidarity with others. [00:23:36] Speaker A: Yeah. And usually they're the smallest and the least amongst us as the people. In that first part of the reading, just before this story started, the verses one to five, it's those little ones that we, you know, that we're called to, to listen to and take care of. [00:23:51] Speaker B: Precisely. [00:23:52] Speaker A: So is there any, anything you'd say about how you would preach this reading, Brendan, or that what you might do with this with younger people in the congregation? [00:24:02] Speaker B: Again, I, I think it's, it's a, a matter of opening, asking open ended questions because I think children particularly are very good at responding to open ended questions because it gives them a certain freedom and latitude. [00:24:17] Speaker A: So this is what I would call a wondering question. [00:24:20] Speaker B: Precisely so. And not, not just ask the, the children, you know, what do they wonder about this reading? But what are the things that go through their minds when perhaps they are asked to befriend a new kid at school who doesn't know anyone else or you know, confront a difficult situation where perhaps they might have to speak to a teacher about something a friend is doing? [00:24:53] Speaker A: What might you need faith to be able to do? [00:24:56] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:24:57] Speaker A: What might God be calling you to say? Be brave enough to say, to go and tell the teachers that somebody's being bullied or something like that. Takes faith to do those things. [00:25:07] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:25:08] Speaker A: So, Brendan, it's been a delight to talk to you today. Thank you very much for joining us and good luck with your preaching this week, everyone. Thank you. By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrian Jackson. Thanks for listening.