C241 Pentecost 15

[00:00:05] Speaker A: You're listening to by the well, a lectionary based podcast for preachers recorded on the land of the Wurundjeri people. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Hi, I'm Howard Wallace. [00:00:18] Speaker A: And I'm Sally Douglas. And this week our readings are Jeremiah 8, 18, going on to chapter 9, verse 1, Psalm 79, 1 9, 1 Timothy 2, 1 7, and Luke 16, 1 13. And these are the readings for the 21st of September. Howard, can we talk about Jeremiah, please? [00:00:42] Speaker B: Yes. We're continuing our long string, or relatively long string through Jeremiah, although we're jumping all over the place in the readings that are set for each week. But we're still in that area of Jeremiah where he's talking about pulling down and destroying. Remember back in chapter one. [00:01:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:01:00] Speaker B: There was God's word about plucking up and pulling down and then building up. So we're still in the pulling down era. In chapter eight, the reading starts at verse 18 of chapter eight, goes through just the very beginning of chapter nine. Mostly. Well, it is Jeremiah lamenting over Jerusalem. And it sort of reminds me of that rather famous painting by Rembrandt of Jeremiah sitting forlornly while the city is sort of burning in the background. Although I think we need to sort of get a bit of more context than Jeremiah's words at this point, which are fairly brief. We could actually look back, or we should look back to verses 13 to 17, which really sort of set a little bit of the scene for this. He has two pictures there, one at the beginning and one at the end of that little passage. In verse 13. You've got this picture of a farmer. [00:02:02] Speaker A: Yes. [00:02:03] Speaker B: Wanting to go out and gather. [00:02:04] Speaker A: Gather them in. [00:02:05] Speaker B: Yes. Gather grapes in from the vines, but actually finding nothing there. [00:02:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Or on his fig tree. And then at the end of the section in verse 17, we've got reference to snakes being let loose amongst the people. Adders that cannot be charmed and they shall bite you. Destruction is the end, which is a reference back, I think, to the story of the wilderness and the snakes when Israel went astray with Moses. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:02:33] Speaker B: So we've got two sort of things. One, an agricultural scene, one a historical memory, if you like, of the destruction people in one way or another. And that's the context for Jeremiah's lament. And I think it's an interesting sort of portrayal. It's hard, actually, as we read this text, the one that's set for the day, to distinguish Jeremiah's words from God's words. [00:03:02] Speaker A: I was actually gonna raise that. Cause some scholars say this is Jeremiah's lament. And some say this is God's lament. And I think that's so interesting. And maybe it can be both. [00:03:11] Speaker B: I think it is both, actually. But Jeremiah here is a proph. Not so much in terms of the words he says, but in terms of his actions. Because what he's doing in lamenting what's happening to Israel is what God is feeling. [00:03:28] Speaker A: It's bearing witness, isn't it? [00:03:29] Speaker B: Oh, yes, it is, very strongly. And I think it's interesting to compare him in this context with the people, because if we do have a look at verses 19 to 20, which starts off, my joy is gone, grief is upon me, my heart is sick. Hark the cry of my poor people from far and wide in the land is the Lord not in Zion is her King not in her. There is a certain dismay of the people. But Jeremiah's lament goes beyond that dismay. [00:04:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:03] Speaker B: And I think it also portrays that the people have. Are not only facing some sort of physical. [00:04:13] Speaker A: Issue. Yeah. Threats. Political threats and. [00:04:15] Speaker B: Yeah, but it's not a crisis just in. Physically, but it's also a crisis of faith. [00:04:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:04:21] Speaker B: For them. And because their. Their expectation is of a God who will save them. [00:04:28] Speaker A: That's right. Sweep in and sort it all out. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Yes, yes. He's the white knight who comes in. [00:04:32] Speaker A: That's right. [00:04:33] Speaker B: Delivers the people. [00:04:34] Speaker A: And that's why I think this text is so powerful, because this is. This is an ongoing existential question for humanity across religions. Across no religions. Where is God in the midst of suffering? [00:04:45] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, there's that. But also what it goes on to say. I mean, the people expect their sins to be forgotten simply in that context. And I think here you have a sort of a very passionate Jeremiah, which I think is illustrative of a very passionate God. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Yes. [00:05:06] Speaker B: Whose concern is for the suffering of his people. But not to the point of just automatically stepping in and saving or saying. [00:05:15] Speaker A: Everything you're doing is fine. [00:05:17] Speaker B: Yes. Or forgetting the problems that have given rise to the crisis that faces these people. So we've got a picture of a very passionate God who arrives on the scene in terms of his prophet. The people get neither the automatic God that they want, the automaton, and nor the one who just forgives their sins, et cetera. They have one who is passionate for the suffering of the people. [00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it's about passion for the suffering and also concerned about their lack of actions that are just, you know, throughout these sets. So it's not just that they're not having enough piety. The People have not fulfilled God's call for justice. Yeah. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Yes. Cause God is passionate also for truth. [00:06:02] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:06:03] Speaker B: And. And all the things that come from that. [00:06:07] Speaker A: Oh, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. [00:06:08] Speaker B: Which I think sort of invites us maybe not just to preach on Jeremiah, but also to reflect on the world as is now, where truth seems to be just discarded in many, many places from leaders who just blatantly tell lies to people. [00:06:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker B: And I think it's a good chance to reflect on the God who is passionate both for those who are suffering because things are withdrawn and people are neglected. [00:06:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:06:37] Speaker B: And for those who mask the truth in their own terms. [00:06:42] Speaker A: Oh, I completely agree, Howard. I think while Absolutely. Our emphasis in mainstream Protestant traditions about God being love is crucial sometimes. Yeah. God is love. Absolutely. Exactly. Sometimes it feels like that becomes translated into an idea that God doesn't mind whatever we do. Rather than holding these intentions because God is loving, God yearns for justice for all and truth. [00:07:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:10] Speaker A: And so there are demands. There are demands placed upon us. [00:07:12] Speaker B: There are, yes. And it's like a few weeks ago or way back at the beginning, when we moved into the prophets in the season of Pentecost, we had a passage from Hosea, chapter 11 particular, which. Where you see God debating with himself. You know, he loves these people. He's loved them since they were small circle. And yet on the other hand, they have gone away. And how is he to respond to one or the other or to both in some way? [00:07:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So that sense of dynamic relationship. God is not static within herself. So this sense of ongoing relationship and calling to account. And so here we're in the midst of the grief. Yeah. [00:07:54] Speaker B: Yes. And God is constantly sort of weighing up those two issues. Love for his people and love for the truth. [00:08:02] Speaker A: That's right. And this just. Just before we move on to the psalm, this particular passage has. Has the kind of theological dynamic of God has withdrawn God's protection because the people have failed. There are other accounts of suffering and other sacred texts. So in Job, for example, the suffering comes because of a testing from Satan the accuser. And in the New Testament, Jesus is innocent and yet suffers violence from the empire. So I think just holding. Holding the complexity out to people is really important because otherwise people can come to this text and then do a kind of simplistic translation of, well, I must be suffering because I've done something wrong. So I just think it's important to flag that for people. [00:08:44] Speaker B: It's not also, I mean, the issue of suffering is not just the suffering of the people, it's the Suffering of God in pictured in Jeremiah, for instance, the God who weeps as he sort of weighs up these issues. [00:08:55] Speaker A: That's right. Well, shall we have a look at the psalm then? So it's Psalm 79. [00:09:02] Speaker B: Now, the Psalm is set down just for verses one to nine, which is a little unfortunate, I think. I don't know quite why we don't have the whole. It's a psalm that is written sort of probably about the time of Jeremiah or a bit just after. It's a communal lament and it's over the destruction of the temple. So it sort of sets it right in Jeremiah's context. So it fits nicely there. But also it fits nicely, I think, with the theme from the Jeremiah reading as well. I think you need to read a bit further than just the verses that are set, because the way the psalm is structured is important to notice. Verses 1 to 4, the beginning of our reading for this week, and verses 10 to 13 form what we call technically an inclusio. [00:10:01] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Because there's a number of words and themes that are repeated in both. [00:10:07] Speaker A: Yeah. So an inclusio is. Whereas there's a theme introduced, there's something in the middle, and then the theme is come. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. [00:10:13] Speaker B: We come back to it, and then the central bit is. Well, not always the most important, but. But often significant. So in verses 1 to 4 and then in 10 to 13, which is a section not set. [00:10:25] Speaker A: Yes. Which you could read. [00:10:27] Speaker B: Yes, yes. There's no harm. [00:10:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker B: Excuse me. You've got words like nations, servants, bloods, neighbors, taunts, etcetera, Repeated in both of them. And then that sort of draws our attention in a little way back to the actual lament, which is in verse 5. [00:10:45] Speaker A: How long? [00:10:47] Speaker B: With that familiar, how long, O Lord, will you be angry forever? And it sort of fits in again to the. To the Jeremiah reading again with the calling on God to save, presumably on God's terms, but also question of whether the sin of the people will affect God's response and how it affects those questions, those core questions, again, both those around. [00:11:17] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:11:18] Speaker B: I mean, if I was preaching on these passages. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:22] Speaker B: We haven't talked about New Testament yet, but. [00:11:24] Speaker A: No, we'll get there. [00:11:25] Speaker B: But I mean, I think it invites us for reflection on what's going on in the world today, where you do have leaders who blatantly lie, and the press that sometimes is quite biased in one way or another politically, etc. The same sort of issues that Jeremiah faced, the psalmist sort of addresses, in a way, they're there right within our world. And we to ask the question, well, what is God passionate about today? [00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And that's such an important question. And it's a different question to taking this. Like when I was reading preparing for Today, I was thinking about how this would land if it was read out in worship in our current global context. And it's tricky because we have verses like pour your anger on the nations and it's talking about Jerusalem and we have a current global crisis. And a few weeks ago, Monica and I shared the World Council of Church's statement about that, which was condemning anti Semitism and condemning misrepresentation of Jewish people, but also condemning the particular government in power at the moment and the way in which they are using violence. And I think that kind of complexity needs to be honoured if we come to these texts. And I think it can help if for people to remember so we can sort of say in passing, oh, the destruction of the Temple was put the background. Just imagine what it would be like if Melbourne was taken over. Or wherever you're living, wherever you're listening, occupying forces come in and destroy the most sacred places and are still in power. It's not just that they leave. This text is not written from a position of power looking down on other nations. It's written from the dirt looking up at those in power. And I think. I think sometimes we miss that. If we're lucky enough to live in a democratic country and we have safety and we have rights, like if we were reading this in Ukraine and it just gone through bombing overnight, or in Sudan, where the most horrific violence is happening, or Myanmar, we might really resonate with this psalm in a different way, you know, And I think knowing that it's written from the underside to those who are misusing their power to empires who are lying and doing violence, then I think we can get a much better sense of where the psalms come from. [00:13:40] Speaker B: Nor should we just sort of assume that the anger that the psalmist here calls on God to express is vengeance. In that sense, yes, it's this anger that where as we've seen in Jeremiah and his lament, but also earlier in Hosea and elsewhere, which weighs up issues of love and justice and truth and all the rest of it. [00:14:05] Speaker A: That's right. And adding to that, for the psalmist, this is the psalmist prayer, that doesn't actually mean that this is God's yearning necessarily, but this is what they're in the gravel in the rubble of what's happened, longing for God to act. And I Think. Well, I certainly at the moment, in our global context, with so much violence happening and so much lying and misuse of power, I take great comfort in the Psalms and praying along with the psalmist, you know, longing for justice. Yes. [00:14:36] Speaker B: So it's a good invitation to preach from the psalmist. [00:14:39] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:14:40] Speaker B: Today or next time. [00:14:43] Speaker A: Did you know you could join our Facebook group by the well for extra content and discussion. So we're going to have a brief look at one Timothy and I think a couple of things just to note. First, it's commonly assumed by New Testament scholars that this is not written by Paul. This is from a later period. There are questions around the language that is used, for example, the expression. But also the way in which the Church, the Jesus community to describe indicates that things are more established now. So that they have people called bishops, who literally means overseers, like those who are giving oversight. Think of bishops as they currently are. But there are. And the language of the Church is used throughout as well. So there's this sense that the issues have moved along a bit. Also in Paul's original letter. So like in Galatians and in Romans and in other places, the really core issue for Paul and other early church leaders is how can non Jewish people be in? And if they're in, do they have to become Jewish? Do they have to become circumcised? And what food can they eat? Like, these are the really core issues and they're nearly tearing apart the Church. This is not the issue in 1 Timothy. It seems like those kind of issues have been maybe not sorted, but they're more settled now. And now it's turning to issues of how to live in community, how to live under empire. And so there's and. And how to. How to be faithful within that context, as well as that in one Timothy and second Timothy as well, there's this. It does seem to indicate that there's this kind of merging with more of the Roman Empire's and the dominant culture's assumptions about how life should be. So there are instructions, for example, for how women should be, which are not in line with how Jesus is talked about in the Gospels, commissioning people like Mary the Magdalene to be the first apostle and so on, to be a leader, to be a speaker. So there's different emphasis going on in this passage. We have these instructions around living quietly. And while. While that can be read as a way of suggesting that we shouldn't challenge political power, I don't think that's what's going on for the author or the authors. I think it's more about Christians are starting to stand out. People are. The Roman Empire had given permission for. For ancient religions like Judaism to continue. They didn't get hassled. But when it became clearer that these Jesus followers weren't Jewish, that they were some kind of new thing, well then that's a threat to the empire. And so Christians are seen as a threat because they're not doing the appropriate cultural, civic duties of going to the temple and making offerings to all the different gods, including to the emperor. So they're a threat, they're getting hassled. So the invitation to settle down, live a quiet life is like, you know, don't draw attention to yourself. We're living under occupation. Just keep, you know, settle, petal that invitation around it. But within that, it's also got this invitation to pray for everybody. And in this passage, it's got this beautiful sense of all things, like it's. All things are ransomed through Jesus, all things, like God's desires for all to be saved. So this is a really universal sense. So it's with. From within that theological framing that the author says, pray for all, including kings. And I just want to say I don't. And presidents. And this is how I really firmly think that when. And we see it in the Gospels through. In Matthew, particularly Jesus saying in the Sermon on the Mount, pray for enemies, I do not think Jesus means pray for them to have a good day. No, you know, like the framing in the Sermon on the Mount is blessed are the peacemakers and the merciful and the transparent, you know, the pure in heart. I think the prayer to pray, the call to pray for enemies is to pray that they become like that, that they become merciful, that they become peacemakers, that they are meek. And I think we should take that seriously. That we pray for enemies, pray for kings, pray for presidents, but pray for outcomes, really specific calling to account so that they can be in line with God's yearnings for justice and mercy. There finishes my sermon because I think we kind of resist that notion. And I think there's something really important about that. Okay. For all those who are preaching on this day, Luke is a hard reading. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Yes. The chapter's a hard one. [00:19:22] Speaker A: The whole. The whole thing is tricky. But before we dive into the specifics, I think the context is really important. So this section of Luke has several passages which are unique to this gospel. So we've just heard about lost things being found. We've had the lost sheep, the lost coin, and Jesus imaging God as the mother who finds or the woman who finds the coin. Then we have the story of the son who goes off and the son who stays home. And God images the father who loves and welcomes both. So those last two are unique to Luke. And as well as that, we have on the other side, there's talking of the rich man and Lazarus, which is also unique to Luke. Like the author of Luke has this significant emphasis on wealth and giving wealth. [00:20:15] Speaker B: Away, which is what this chapter is all about. [00:20:17] Speaker A: That's right. [00:20:18] Speaker B: Anyways. [00:20:18] Speaker A: Exactly. So however we come to this particular very curious passage, we need to keep in mind the author of Luke's Agenda, which is this recurring theme about leaving everything to follow Jesus. And we've already heard this passage about recently that you have to sell all your possessions and follow this is integral. So whatever this passage is not about, it's not about accruing wealth. I think we have to remember that. So it's about another story and the way in which it is told is already unpacked in different ways. So I think knowing that even within the text we see people, the community or the author trying to interpret it is important. So it's a story about wheeling and dealing. The stewards realize he's gonna get the sack and he doesn't wanna get his hands dirty and do manual. I mean, it's quite. I think there's a humor in the story too. It's like, you know what? I don't get my hands dirty, I can't do manual labor and what am I gonna do? And those kind of stories were popular of someone who's kind of in a tight spot in a corner. And how do they creatively get out of it? So it's got that kind of flavour about it. So then they go around and saying, well, you don't have to give as much, you don't have to give as much. And so he curries favour with people by doing that. And they're big amount. I mean, we need to remember it's a story Jesus was telling. So the way we can understand that. So it could be is the steward ripping off the rich man to gain. [00:21:47] Speaker B: Favour and that the rich man comes. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Back and says, oh, it's all great. [00:21:50] Speaker B: So that's option one, admires him. [00:21:52] Speaker A: Option two, this is how scholars argue could be that the steward is actually just taking off the interest, the corrupt interest that was charged. And then. So he's being honorable. And then option three is that the steward is reducing his own commission out of that lump sum or deducting it. So that they pay less now. I mean, to me, it seems like while option two and three are quite nice, they're probably massaging the text a little bit. It's probably just that he's ripping off the manager and then coming favor with people. So what's the point? So in verse eight, we're told should be shrewd. Like the children of this age should be shrewd as children of light. And I find that quite interesting. It kind of has a sense of be savvy. [00:22:38] Speaker B: It has, yes. [00:22:39] Speaker A: And I quite like that. Like, I think. And it makes me think about. Martin Luther King said something amazing about. Or many things that were amazing. But one of them was that those who plan for peace have to do as much planning as those who plan for war. Like in this commitment to love and justice, are we being savvy? Are we being creative with the resources that we have? [00:23:01] Speaker B: With the proviso that one assumes that there's honesty and righteousness along with that too? [00:23:08] Speaker A: I know. That's why this story is so bizarre. Exactly. So, yeah, with a significant caveat. So it could be that the first nine, who knows what this is about, make friends by means of dishonest wealth. Like, I think. I think as a preacher, sometimes it's okay to say we have no idea what this is about. Like that just. And scholars still question it. Like there are some wonderings, but we're allowed to not know. [00:23:34] Speaker B: And I think sometimes, well, scholars, but others too can start to read too much or want to read too much into it. Like you wonder is he getting interest or all that stuff. [00:23:46] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. [00:23:48] Speaker B: Whereas the story, I think, can operate at another level. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I think verse 10, if I were Preaching, could be a beautiful way of zooming in. So whoever is faithful in little is faithful much, I think that comes to. So it could be that the author is trying to make sense of these two different stories. And so this is one way is the shrewd thing, and the next is to be faithful. Now that's a really interesting thing, I think, to think about. And how do we act when we're publicly seen? And how do we act when we're talking to the person at the checkout? You know, particularly in hearing the news, all this abusive behavior towards people in serving contexts. You know, how. How are we being in the little as well as the big? Do we take seriously that we're a disciple when we're at the petrol station, as well as when we're preaching or whatever other public role that we have? And I read this Great phrase. Just last night I thought, oh, my goodness. It relates to the passage how you do one thing. Thing as how you do everything. And I feel like that kind of relates quite a bit. So to take seriously seeking to love God and love neighbour and love ourselves all the way down in the big things and in the little things. [00:24:57] Speaker B: I read someone talking about the passage in that who had. Interesting comment that the connection of the parable to the rest of the chapter, which is obviously about wealth. [00:25:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:09] Speaker B: It's rather oblique, which means we're not quite sure. We're not quite sure into that. No, but then. And I thought that was. That was fair enough. And then to go on then talk about being shrewd within the world. [00:25:21] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:25:22] Speaker B: Without sort of necessarily being. And then the. The commentator sort of said, alternatively, one other interpretation is, is this an illustration of what he called the roguery of divine grace? Ways in which, you know, even God's way within the world can be a little tricky and surprising. [00:25:45] Speaker A: Oh, I like that. The rotary of divine. That's really good. Well, for whatever, whatever that those, those verses are about, the author comes back to. What's really essential for them is about two masters. A slave can't serve two masters, so it comes back to you. And money is not okay to serve. So they're making it clear whatever the middle section is about is still sell your possessions, you know, where is your loyalty? Give your loyalty to God. And I think that's really, really important. [00:26:12] Speaker B: Yes. And it ties in with what we've been talking about before, about Jeremiah and the psalm. God's love of both people and their needs and the love of truth. [00:26:24] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And I think that be savvy is something that we really do need to think about in the church also. But exactly in the way you're saying about love and truth, loving people does not mean just trusting them naively. You know, the call to be sat. And I was thinking when I was reading this passage about the Didache, this other early church text, where it's like, if the prophets come to you, welcome them for a day, and if they want to stay, well, they can say only up to three. Now, clearly what's happening is people are overstaying, saying, I'm a prophet and if they're asking for money, they're not a true prophet. Clearly what's happening. Some are asking for money, like. So these questions about savviness and loyalty and truth are really important. [00:27:04] Speaker B: Yeah, we. We ought not to be overpowered by our own sense of grace. And that's charity. [00:27:13] Speaker A: That's right, exactly. So I hope that you enjoy all these hard readings in your and invite people into the questions to wonder together. Thanks, Howard. [00:27:23] Speaker B: Thank you. [00:27:27] Speaker A: By the well is brought to you by Pilgrim Theological College and the Uniting Church in Australia. It's produced by Adrienne Jackson. Thanks for listening.